Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I agree with what Sébastien said. I do want to understand how we will be proceeding. When we are talking about first nations' rights, we need to be moving forward.

I agree with the Conservatives' request because we need to be questioning Mr. Boissonnault. It applies to his business. He took a big chunk of money.

We need to understand if we are going to be over our allotted time, so I want to go with what Sébastien is requesting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Go ahead, Mr. Carr.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Just for the record, I hope Ms. Idlout will correct what she just said about Mr. Boissonnault taking a big chunk of money. What contract was awarded?

I think members have to be very careful about skirting the line of what's true and what's not. There are allegations, and I accept that, but to say that Mr. Boissonnault took a big chunk of money, I'd like to understand—perhaps later on, not now—from the member what she is referring to, because that's just simply false. It hasn't been proven anywhere and it's not becoming of members to be creating falsehoods.

There are allegations. The allegations are serious and they need to be looked at, but to suggest that a large chunk of money was taken, which in fact is not proven, I think is something that should be withdrawn from the table.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Carr.

I want to get to the business at hand here—what the motion has ordered us to do and the priority it has ordered us to do it in.

Mr. Schmale, keep it short, please.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

This headline is from Global News, August 22, 2024:

Boissonault's former company awarded federal contract in potential conflict of interest

Employment Minister Randy Boissonault's former medical company won a federal contract while he was in office and co-owned the business.

That is, I believe, what Ms. Idlout was referring to, Chair.

At the same time, I'm on side with the Bloc and the NDP. If there are games to be played here and we have Minister Petitpas Taylor attend, I don't think that goes to the spirit of the House order. I don't think it would be very responsible to go against that. I would like to severely stress that we stick to the House order. It's Randy Boissonault whom the House determined needs to appear, and who is ordered to appear, along with several other witnesses. That's whom we expect to be in that seat. Otherwise, it would be unacceptable to us and, I believe, the other opposition parties.

If we want to continue this, I hope the chair might allow for some clarification that he will, in fact—through his team—be calling Randy Boissonault.

We would like to know that right now, if possible. Then we can get back to Bill C-61.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Colleagues, I'm going to take this back. I need to confer with the clerk. Otherwise, it seems pretty clear to me, from the way it's written, that we're inviting the minister and not the former minister. I need to get some advice on that. I understand what everybody has said in interventions here.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Do you want to suspend for a couple of minutes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'd be happy to suspend.

Again, that's my reading of this. That's the advice I've had up to this point. If we're following the order, which we are ordered to do, that's what we will likely do, but I'm going to get some advice from the clerk here.

We will suspend briefly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Colleagues, I'm starting up, and I'm going to say something here.

I've had a chance to confer with the clerk and counsel here. I very much understand what the spirit of this is, to Mr. Schmale's point. It was meant to invite the former minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Official Languages. Obviously, that's changed now.

In any event, because of privilege.... I've just had a chance to review the green book in chapter 20, page 282, to this effect—

[A voice]

It's page 982.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry. It's page 982.

It says that a standing committee cannot order a member of the House of Commons or a senator to appear, which is not preventing us from inviting them to appear. I would very much encourage the committee to invite Mr. Boissonnault to appear as part of this committee, because that was what this order is all about. Given the way that it is listed and given the precedents that we've looked into from previous committees looking at this, it is as it is written, and that would be the current minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Official Languages.

The committee can challenge the ruling here, but even if this were to be overruled, we still don't have the ability to order Mr. Boissonnault to appear, because of privilege and the limits of our abilities on committee. That's my ruling on this.

I see there are a couple of hands up.

I will go first to Mr. Battiste, then Mr. Schmale and then Mr. Shields.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the hope of getting on to the first nations clean water legislation, which I think is the most important thing to indigenous communities right now and the most important thing to first nations leaders right now, on our side we're willing to use the strongest legal language possible that can either compel, order or invite Mr. Boissonnault to attend. We will agree with that. Whatever is the strongest wording possible that we have as a committee, we will agree with.

We're not here trying to stall or protect; we're here to get to the first nations clean water legislation, for which we have additional resources today, and we are agreeable to the strongest language possible from this committee for what the opposition parties are saying.

I'm hoping that with our agreement to the strongest language legally possible for a committee to compel Mr. Boissonnault to come to this committee and answer questions, as was the intent of this.... We're more than happy to do that as long as we can get to first nations clean water without continuous delays from talking about the motion that we voted on in the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Battiste.

We'll go to Mr. Schmale and then Mr. Zimmer.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I think we'll work on something here for that, but in the meantime I'd like to move that we become televised immediately, please. Apparently they said we have only audio.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We'll pass your motion or get UC. We'll work on the language and we'll get back to it.

We're going to suspend briefly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We will come to order.

We need agreement here at the committee to move to being televised. I understand the whips, but if we pass a motion in this committee, which I can imagine we'll have unanimous consent to do, we can move into being televised.

Mr. Schmale, would you like to move a motion?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I would like to move, Chair, that this committee become televised immediately.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Schmale.

Seeing thumbs-up around the table, I see that we have unanimous consent.

Colleagues, we need each party to contact their whips to indicate this.

Also, make sure that your whips contact Suzie Cadieux. We're going to suspend briefly while that happens.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Order.

As you can probably see, we're online. Video is working. The intervening time has been productive for a lot of conversations among members. Hopefully, that will help with some of the work we have to do.

Before that, we left off with Mr. Schmale, so I'm going to turn the floor back over to him.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity to bring this motion back. Again, it's based on the House order and your ruling earlier. Please confirm the issue, Mr. Chair, with a quick nod, if you could. It's that the Minister of Employment has changed. Obviously, our priority is to have Randy Boissonnault, but it's your ruling that Minister Petitpas Taylor will be attending instead. We'll see Minister Petitpas Taylor very soon, then.

In the meantime, per the conversation prior to our taking a quick suspension, the main issue is getting Randy Boissonnault to this committee to answer questions about his co-ownership of this company and the applications made for government contracts while claiming indigenous status when he was not actually indigenous himself.

I'd like to move the motion, and I believe there will be a subamendment to that motion.

It is:

That the committee report to the House that the MP for Edmonton Centre appear before the committee for two hours independently by Friday, December 6, 2024, and that the report be tabled by the chair in the House as soon as possible and no later than Monday, November 25, 2024.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Schmale.

Is that motion going to be circulated?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

The clerk should have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I understand the motion is being circulated to members, so you should have that momentarily.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Can you read the motion one more time? I need to be clear about what I'm amending.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It reads:

That the committee report to the House that the MP for Edmonton Centre appear before the committee for two hours independently by December 6, 2024, and that the report be tabled by the chair in the House as soon as possible and no later than Monday, November 25, 2024.