Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Let's get back to it.

There's a project called the polar icebreaker project. There was a 2024 update by the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

How much is the polar icebreaker project projected to cost now, Minister?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'll answer this question, although I know some others might want to ask why we're not investing our time and energy in supporting indigenous businesses' access to federal procurement, which is so important for the economic and social development of workers and businesses in those communities. This is a rare instance, and I think a very precious one, in which we can all gather our—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry, Minister. It's a point of order.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

It's a very simple question. He said he had it. It sounded like he read the report.

The simple question is this: How much is the project costing to date?

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It's not a point of order.

However, on the same point of order, Mr. Chair....

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. Carr, go ahead on the same non-point of order.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Well, if it's going to be recognized, I sure will.

Mr. Chair, again Mr. Zimmer is not talking about anything relevant to the topic at hand. It was Conservative members, along with the NDP and the Bloc, who sent us back here to talk about indigenous economic development and barriers to it. He has not used the word “indigenous” in the last four minutes in anything related to the question he posed to the Minister.

Chair, it is your prerogative to remove the floor from a member who is not staying relevant to a study. My colleague may be mistaken, but that is in fact the case.

I ask this now for the fifth time, Mr. Chair. If he wants Minister Blair in that seat to answer questions about military procurement, he can go to the defence committee and do so. It's insulting that we have been asked to talk about indigenous issues, and he hasn't used the word “indigenous” to ask a question.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Carr.

Again, I want to remind members to stick to the matter at hand. There is a certain amount of chair's prerogative in these things, and I want to give Mr. Zimmer another chance to ask one of those very relevant questions. I know we have many questions we want to get answered that are outside the scope of this study that we're here to do, in addition to barriers to economic development in indigenous communities, as was ordered by the House.

Mr. Zimmer, I will give you the floor once more, but if it's not going to be relevant to the study at hand, we are moving on to another member.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

What I'm speaking about—how it affects northern communities and Arctic sovereignty—involves indigenous communities directly. If the member doesn't understand that, maybe he should visit some northern communities so he can further understand how concerned they are about the lack of activity by this Liberal government on Arctic sovereignty and security. Maybe he wants to go and talk to some northern communities and ask them these questions.

Can I get back to my question, Mr. Chair?

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

You will have the floor for another two minutes or less. However, again, there are many ways to frame this question to make it relevant for this study. I would invite you to do that. I will turn the floor back to you.

First, I see that Mr. Hanley has a point of order.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Yes, I do.

I suggest that my friend Mr. Zimmer is engaging in debate rather than addressing a point of order. This is really about indigenous procurement. Again, the topic is indigenous procurement, not “indigenous” as some kind of broad, anything-goes topic.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Zimmer, I'll hand the floor back to you.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you.

We're here today talking about, really, the NDP-Liberal government and its scandal around procurement, and specifically around indigenous procurement. I'm asking you a question about how much the icebreakers are costing, and it's all very relevant because it involves the north.

Please, on the polar icebreaker project that was supposed to cost $720 million, which was announced by a previous Conservative government, what has the cost ballooned to, to date, Minister?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

There are two pieces of good news here. The first one is that you're a member of Parliament for a riding where I think there are 13 first nations communities, so it's good that we have this opportunity here to speak about the indigenous businesses procurement—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

The actual cost of the acquisition of those two polar icebreakers has ballooned to an estimated $8.5 billion. I think what's concerning to northerners—

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

There is a point of order from Ms. Gainey.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

The relevance here is just way off topic.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

We're still talking about northern issues and indigenous....

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We are not talking about northern issues. We are talking about the motion that was put before the House, which is why we are here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Ms. Gainey.

Again, I am not seeing how this is relevant at all to the study at hand. If it would be useful, I would be happy to circulate the motion again. The study at hand, again, is about indigenous economic procurement and indigenous economic development. That is what we are dealing with today.

Again, Mr. Zimmer, we have been through this now, through many points of order. I don't want to keep....

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'll finish with one last comment, then, and we'll move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I will give you the floor for one last comment, and then we are going to move on to the next questioner.