Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I've tried to ask it a few times.

I'd love to hear from Minister Anandasangaree again.

Why is it complex? It's not complex; it's simple. Why do you think the case of Mr. Boissonnault specifically is complex?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Genuis, I believe I've answered that question. We can agree to disagree on this. It is not that straightforward for someone who was adopted into a family. The issue of identity is complex to start off with, but in this particular case, it's compounded by the fact that he was adopted.

I think he's spoken for himself. I'm not here to add to that. He's given you his position. As far as I'm concerned, if you disagree with my analysis of this, we can agree to disagree.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis.

We're moving on to Mr. Hanley.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to both of you, ministers, for appearing.

Thank you to all the officials for being here as well.

Minister Anandasangaree, I know that you feel very strongly about economic reconciliation. You refer to it often, including at this committee. I was reflecting on that topic as it was raised many times during the intergovernmental forum last week when there was a strong Yukon presence here for Yukon Days. We welcomed many chiefs to Ottawa, as you know, as well as first nation leaders, the premier and several ministers.

I'll also note, with the goal of economic reconciliation and first nation economic development, how important it is that we pursue the implementation of modern treaties. Of course, as you know, 11 of Canada's modern treaties are with first nations in the Yukon.

I was also reminded of how important it is to renew the fiscal relationship between Canada and self-governing first nations, as reflected in the collaborative fiscal framework policy, and of how Yukon first nations are really depending on the completion of this framework.

I wonder if you could update me specifically on this from your point of view regarding progress on the collaborative fiscal policy, where we are and where you expect we should be going.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Hanley.

I've been reminded by virtually every Yukon first nation that there are 11 modern treaties that exist in Yukon. I certainly want to acknowledge that, and of course that was also highlighted at the intergovernmental forum.

Concerning the issues around the collaborative fiscal policy that we've done, we've undertaken a great deal of work, particularly with the Yukon first nations. I believe that we have significant movement, and certainly there's a commitment on my part to ensure that it comes to fruition. It is important that there be proper fiscal anchors and availability of resources for the full potential of modern treaty nations, particularly in the north, to be able to undertake, among other things, very important work around economic reconciliation. It is, in my opinion, one of the anchors that will enable long-term self-determination for first nations.

Yukon is a great example of a very supportive territorial government, and a great deal of work has gone towards ensuring own-source revenue. It's not just that; there are other areas of significant progress, including what I am hoping will be the first modern agreement on justice that we will be able to sign in Yukon.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you for that.

On a similar topic of modern treaties and implementation, one of my main worries about the Conservative obstruction in the House over privilege is all the valuable legislation that's being held up. Among them is Bill C‑77, as you know, the modern treaty commissioner act, which has not yet come back for second reading.

It's certainly one of the priorities that Yukon first nation leaders, along with other self-governing chiefs around the country, are really pressing to get done. Could you comment on the importance of passing this legislation and your role vis-à-vis helping to move this bill forward?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

Look, Bill C-77 is a bill that was co-developed by modern treaty nations. It's something they've been asking for for over 20 years. This was truly co-developed with the full involvement of all existing modern treaty nations. It is something they have been asking for from the government for the last number of months as we finalized it. We tabled the legislation earlier in the fall.

I appreciate that notwithstanding the deadlock, it seems, in Parliament, the people at this table were able to work across partisan lines. We were able to pass Bill S-16 and Bill S-13. I want to acknowledge and thank the members for that. I think these are critical pieces of legislation, and so are Bill C-77, Bill C-61 and a range of others. We need to unlock Parliament to debate them and have constructive work done. That's why we were all elected to be here. It is transformative work. In fact, one of the challenges we have with some of the historical and numbered treaties is that there is no mechanism of the kind we could have through Bill C-77, so I implore colleagues around the table to work in collaboration. One thing I always pride myself on is being able to reach across the aisle to work with all of you here.

This is not about partisanship. Reconciliation, I've often said, is an intergenerational journey that involves all of us. No one party or government has exclusivity over it. I believe we've done a significant amount of work in that regard. Ultimately, anyone who cares about where this country is going on reconciliation needs to work with us on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hanley.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Anandasangaree, without the Métis of Manitoba, without the Métis of Saskatchewan, without the historic Métis settlements of Alberta and without the Métis of British Columbia, who were the last to leave the ship of the Métis National Council last Friday, does the Métis National Council still have a meaningful Métis voice? In its current form, is the Métis National Council still legitimate, in your opinion?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Sébastien, with all due respect, I don't think it's fair for me to have this conversation in public. I think it's important that I have conversations with the Métis National Council before I express anything further.

I fully appreciate the questions you're posing. You and I have had a number of conversations on this. Out of fairness to the Métis National Council, which is recognized as a national indigenous organization, I believe I need to have those conversations. I'll be glad to have a follow-up with you after that.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I urge you to immediately look into the operation of this organization and take the necessary action, given that it receives public funds.

I would add a parallel question: What is the basis for recognizing the Métis Nation of Ontario?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I'm sorry. Can you clarify the question?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You recognize the Métis Nation of Ontario. What is that recognition based on?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

The Métis Nation of Ontario is deemed to be a section 35 rights holder, and they have been from the outset, since section 35 was implemented.

I can ask our deputy minister whether they wish to elaborate.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

There is a difference between the Métis in Sault Ste. Marie and the many Métis encampments in Ontario that define themselves as Métis and are recognized as such by the Métis Nation of Ontario, but are not necessarily recognized by the Métis themselves or by your government. Are they recognized by your government?

[Valerie Gideon, Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

I would like to clarify that we provided funding to the organization to establish the criteria to define its members, also based on the Powley decision in Ontario. The organization is in the process of fine-tuning this work, which is essential to its governance.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Will that report be made public?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry, Mr. Lemire, but your time is up. That said, you will have another turn to speak.

Next, we're going to go to Ms. Idlout for two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

I think that the line of questioning asked by the Conservatives is very relevant. I have a friend, MP Rachel Blaney, who's always said she's white, who in a funny newspaper article introduced the article by saying she was born as white and is still white, but she was adopted by a first nations family. She's kept it very simple. She's made it very clear that she is not indigenous. She's never used her identity as being adopted by a first nations family to make any claim of cultural benefit for herself, so to me, it's very clear.

My friend Blake Desjarlais has also said, “Everyone who claims Indigenous ancestry should be clear and direct when asked, especially when attempting to profit off of programs made for Indigenous entrepreneurs and businesses.”

Having shown how simple this is, it is clear to me that the Liberal complacency on this identity issue is creating economic barriers to indigenous peoples.

My question is to both of you. What will you do to eliminate such economic barriers, to remove these barriers to economic development?

Qujannamiik.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you for those comments.

Look, I've been to Ms. Blaney's riding and I've met with members of her first nations community. I also appreciate the advocacy, the work she does. It's the same thing with Mr. Desjarlais.

I think we need to do better, and we need to ensure, first and foremost, that the indigenous business directory is led and controlled by indigenous people. I think we need to find a mechanism to do that, which starts off often with some deep consultations and co-development. Although it's Ms. Hajdu's portfolio, I do believe that we need to get towards self-determination. I often say that the work I do is about self-determination, and this should be no different. Fundamentally, it should be something that's very much driven by indigenous people.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

If you could, please answer my question about how you're going to respond to pretendians who are creating barriers to economic development. What will you do to address that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We're over time, so answer very briefly, Minister.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

For me, the starting point is to ensure that the identification is driven by indigenous people and not by the federal government. I think that's the transformative piece. The self-determination, in this case, would come from the distinctions-based individuals or groups that form the business directory or inform how the business directory is managed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

Next is Mr. Schmale for five minutes.