Evidence of meeting #136 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Keith Conn  Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Jessica Sultan  Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Malachie Azémar
Valerie Gideon  Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Andrea Sandmaier  President, Otipemisiwak Métis Government
Garrett Tomlinson  Senior Director, Self Government, Métis Nation of Alberta
Nancy Vohl  Procedural Clerk

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Let me first say that I will work with you to see, with the translation bureau, how we can always support the needs you have legitimately expressed earlier. We recognize that speaking in our preferred language is always better when it comes to providing a voice to those people whom we have the fortune and the responsibility to represent.

Second, I am closely working with Minister Hajdu in many different ways. When it comes to the indigenous business directory, we're supportive of their work in the development of guidance on how it can support the broader indigenous procurement strategy, because there is obviously a key link between the directory and the strategy.

We are also working with them to coordinate outreach and to raise awareness to indigenous businesses so that they can fully participate in the federal government's procurement. That comes with coordinating the standing offers and the supply arrangements that can stimulate indigenous business development.

We are also working with Indigenous Services Canada to draft and update contract clauses, based on ISC's guidance.

Finally, we are working together to identify, reduce and sometimes eliminate barriers to federal procurement activities that are hitting indigenous businesses and workers.

I will end by saying, as Minister Hajdu said—and as you at every opportunity also support—that reconciliation comes with the recognition that for too many years colonialism has created those barriers and those gaps. That creates social and economic costs, obviously, but also broader costs for Canada, which we always should recognize and try to reduce as much as possible.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

That completes the first round of questions.

We're moving into the second round of five minutes, starting with Mr. Genuis.

You have five minutes.

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

The Globe and Mail has a shocking story today about abuse of the indigenous procurement program by the Canadian Health Care Agency. According to a whistle-blower, the government was putting in place tight constraints on the work of auditors as soon as they started to identify serious problems. The government was warned by auditors, and their response to those warnings was to make life more difficult for the auditors.

Minister, you told my colleague Michael Barrett that you only heard about allegations against the Canadian Health Care Agency this weekend. Is that correct?

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

No, I did not. I told your colleague that I was made aware of the auditors' overall concerns about the program this weekend and that it was deeply distressing to me, and that I—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

You were previously aware of his allegations against the Canadian Health Care Agency.

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

What I'm saying is that this was the first time I heard of Mr. Hartle's allegations.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

When did you first become aware of concerns about the indigeneity of this partnership involving the Canadian Health Care Agency? When did you first become aware of that?

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

The department routinely reviews, as you've heard before—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

When did you first become aware? It's not about the department. When did you first become aware?

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

As I said, this weekend, I too heard about what was in The Globe and Mail, and I was deeply concerned.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

However, when did you first become aware of concerns about the Canadian Health Care Agency?

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

I think you've asked questions about this company before, have you not?

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

When did you first become aware of it, though?

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

The first time I became aware of it was.... I don't have an exact date, but it was a few months ago.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

It was a few months ago.

Minister, you said in response to my questions, “I would say that it was an abuse of being on the list without adequate representation.” You said this about the Canadian Health Care Agency back at the end of October, and you have tried to represent the facts in a very different way to my colleague Mr. Barrett, which is disappointing, to say the least.

The AFN has said that—

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Well, wait a minute, Mr. Chair. Could I respond to that? That is actually putting words in my mouth, and that is not what I said.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Can I have the time, Mr. Chair? I have another question.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Mr. Genuis, you do have the time, and the minister will have an opportunity to respond to that.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, sir.

Okay, I have three minutes left.

The AFN says that you're not hitting your 5% target. It's closer to 1%. That's what Chief Joanna Bernard told the government operations committee. Is the AFN correct?

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

It's not, according to our records, but what I can say is that I understand the concern. I'm actually, as I said to your colleague, glad that the Conservative Party is fighting so hard to protect this 5% procurement target. This is good news. It means that we all want this program to work better, including the AFN, and the AFN has—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

You're not answering my question, and you were somewhat inaccurate in your response to Mr. Barrett.

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

I did answer your question, Mr. Genuis.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

You don't agree with the AFN. I understand.

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

I would say that our data is different from the AFN's and that in some departments we are exceeding the procurement target of 5%.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Well, either you're hitting it or you're not. It's not as if the AFN is experiencing things differently, right? Either you're hitting the 1% or you're hitting the 5%.