Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Are we into the green book here, Mr. Chair?

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

—which I don't think are actually points of order, just for reference.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Carr.

Let's get back to asking the questions. We're all here to hear the testimony of the ministers.

I'm going to turn the floor back to Mr. Barrett.

You have a little bit more than two minutes left. I had stopped the clock. I'll hand the floor back to you, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Before your Liberal colleague attempted to interfere to cover up for the shameful behaviour and lies of Liberal MP Randy Boissonnault with respect to his claims to indigenous heritage and to attempting to defraud indigenous-owned businesses of their ability to get government contracts and the Liberal Party of Canada promoting that lie in an attempt to raise funds off that false claim, Minister, do you think that this behaviour is appropriate and that Canadians should be concerned with the Liberal Party's actions in this case?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm not the chair of this committee, so I cannot determine whether MP Carr's intervention was a point of order, but what I know is that what he said was correct: Making false allegations and making all sorts of falsehoods sound true because they're all compiled together is not a fair treatment of the facts.

I would suggest again that you get back to what MP Boissonnault said to you just last week and that you ask him those questions if you think they are relevant and—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

What we know to be true, Minister, is that every time Mr. Boissonnault came before a standing committee, what he said was later proven to be not true and that he has demonstrated himself to be someone who is not truthful or honest, so we can't refer to Mr. Boissonnault's testimony as to what is honest or right. What we know is that the facts are that the Liberal Party of Canada promoted a false claim about Randy Boissonnault's indigenous heritage.

This was my question for you. Your party, sir, the Liberal Party, fundraised off what we know to be not true, and Canadians are of course concerned about it. This type of dishonesty borders on corruption when Canadians don't know whether what the government has said is true or is not true.

Should Canadians be concerned with the actions of your party when we know that one of your former cabinet colleagues showed a pattern for dishonesty and lies, up to and including—

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Barrett is an experienced—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. Carr has a point of order.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Barrett is an experienced parliamentarian. He knows that he can't refer to a member's behaviour as lying.

In fact, my Conservative colleagues across the way did this on multiple occasions at the last meeting, and in fact it was a Conservative chair who correctly ruled at that moment in time that it was unparliamentary language.

He should apologize and withdraw that comment.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's not what I said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Carr.

We are getting to the end of the time.

Mr. Barrett had asked a question. I'm going to give the minister an opportunity.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I have Mr. Carr.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

—when a member is referred to by another member as a liar, whether that's in the chamber or at committee, it requires a withdrawal and an apology. I think that you, as chair, should be giving an indication of what you expect in terms of the way that members comport themselves around the table.

I appreciate that we want to get to a further line of questioning, but when one member calls another a liar, that not only in and of itself delays the proceedings, forcing someone like me to raise a point of order, but further to that, it does require the chair to give an indication that there should be an apology and a withdrawal, or at the very least a withdrawal of the commentary.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Carr.

I do want to remind members to ensure that you are using parliamentary language at all times. You'll note in Standing Order 18 that you're not to use disrespectful or offensive language, and I just want to remind members of this.

We don't want to get into this kind of behaviour in this committee. We want to be able to get the testimony that we're all seeking here and as the House indeed ordered us to do. I just want to remind members to do that and to not use disrespectful or offensive language in this committee.

We are at the end of the time, but I want to give Minister Duclos an opportunity to respond.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll just repeat in French what I said in English a few moments ago.

Compiling things that may seem true at a very high level, but that collectively turn out to be false, is not a good way to proceed.

I would suggest that committee members continue the discussion with the member in question if they want.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barrett.

We're moving over to our second questioner in the first round of questions.

Mr. Carr, you have six minutes.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister Duclos, it's nice to see you. We haven't had the chance to hear from you often at this committee, but unfortunately I'm going to direct my questions to Minister Hajdu.

Minister, we've talked a lot, you and I, both here and outside of committee in my hometown of Winnipeg. We've talked specifically about the many ways in which we've progressed together with indigenous communities in Manitoba and across the country on the ambitions and the goals of realizing critical economic development and economic reconciliation.

I'm thinking specifically of projects like the downtown health care facility that's going to be built out of Portage Place. That wouldn't happen without millions of dollars of federal investments, which will be leveraged by first nations in my hometown of Winnipeg. I'm thinking about the Bay building, which is going to be turned into very important housing, and about other infrastructure that will support first nations in Manitoba.

I'm thinking about a national school food program, which, as a former educator myself, I believe to be critically important. I've been to several schools. Despite my colleagues in the opposition continuing to call it “bureaucracy” and levying accusations of no food having actually been served, I can tell you that this is not true: There is food being served in Manitoba schools as we speak. I've been to them. I've seen those kids eat that food. That's an important piece for first nations kids in Manitoba.

I'm thinking of Freedom Road, which, very early in the life of our government, was an incredibly important move of reconciliation, which certainly my colleague Mr. Melillo, I would hope, applauds, as it is something that benefits the community on both the Ontario and the Manitoba sides of the border. That has led to substantial economic development and has been a very important step in the direction of righting some of the egregious historical wrongs.

I'm thinking of the school building announcements you just made in Winnipeg a couple of days ago with many first nations communities. The better the education our kids have, the better their prospects of economic development.

With all of that, Minister, perhaps you can reflect more broadly about the ways in which—whether that's relative to Winnipeg, Manitoba or all of Canada—the Government of Canada, in the last nine years, has made positive steps towards ensuring that the economic well-being of first nations in Canada and economic reconciliation have been at the forefront of your decision-making.

Thank you.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well, that's quite a list, actually. It's a short and partial list, and yet so important, because you're talking about what many people talk about: the social determinants of health. I would say that we should broaden that out and say the social determinants of wealth as well.

Shoal Lake is a perfect example, as is Freedom Road. I had an opportunity to go to Shoal Lake and used Freedom Road to get to Shoal Lake. When I got there.... The community is in a rejuvenation, actually, right now. There are many members who live in Winnipeg and who now are able to commute back and forth to the community and are providing services to the community in the form of leadership, health services and education services. In fact, their water treatment plant, which is also new and funded by the federal government, is actually fully run by Shoal Lake members and is maintained by Shoal Lake members.

I think what you're hitting on is that these investments that we've been making—I did mention the number in my speech, and it's 1,100% more than the previous Conservative government spent on indigenous priorities—are not just social investments. They actually contribute to stronger communities and to communities' ability to educate their kids at home, closer to home, and they have higher graduation rates. That creates more opportunities for young people to go to post-secondary education—college and university—and then oftentimes come back home to provide services and to continue to grow that community.

Thank you for mentioning the school announcement as well. That was such an exciting announcement. Many of those communities have had to continue to send their high-schoolers out of town. As you would know, being in Winnipeg—and maybe MP Melillo also knows these stories—it's really challenging for the kids who have to leave home to go to school in a city far away.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Minister, I'm sure you could continue, but one of the things that it seems to me is of critical importance to economic reconciliation is making sure that water rights are respected, because, of course, when you have water rights, which therefore lead to incredibly important water infrastructure, you can improve economic development.

I couldn't help but note that during the request for unanimous consent a couple of days ago in the House for this bill, which we spent countless hours debating and passing here at committee—Bill C-61 is the one I'm referring to—it was only Conservative members who refused to give unanimous consent to expedite it. What's the impact of a further delay on Bill C-61 going to be, as a result of Conservative behaviour, on the economic development future for first nations on reserve?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you for the question.

I know that all parties at this table worked really hard to amend the bill and make the bill even better, including the Conservative Party, which submitted successful amendments that were accepted.

I would probably just quote Chief Moonias, who is from Neskantaga First Nation, as you know, in MP Melillo's riding. He said this after that vote. He was actually very disappointed. He said:

We need you to act now.

We don't need perfection. We just need your best efforts.

He had more to say in the media as well about how long that community has suffered and how far they've come, and how this essential legislation is going to prevent Neskantaga from ever having to return to those days of being neglected and underfunded by a federal government.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, Minister.

I certainly hope that the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry, Mr. Carr. You time has elapsed.

With that, we're moving over to our next questioner.

Mr. Lemire has the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister Duclos and Minister Hajdu.

Indigenous business leaders must have real nd direct access to federal government rocurement opportunities as equal partners, not as marginalized bystanders. Obviously, genuine indigenous people are the ones to talk to.

Do you want me to start over, Minister?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm sorry. Let me make sure that I have the right translation.

That's fine. It's perfect. Thank you.