Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

That takes us to the end of this panel. We will suspend very briefly before we welcome our next witnesses, who will be joining us in a couple of minutes.

I want to thank the ministers for appearing today. I also want to thank all our officials for answering questions.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I have a quick point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Go ahead, Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Chair, we also need to deal with the issue of Mr. Boissonnault's two business partners.

As per the House order, they were supposed to be attending committee to answer questions. I want to get your update. I know there was an update last week, but it would be good to find out exactly what the process is if they do not appear. Hopefully, on Thursday we could have them at this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you.

First, I want to excuse our witnesses.

Again, thank you very much for providing the testimony and for answering our questions.

Mr. Schmale, we have made a number of efforts to contact the two individuals. I'll hand it over to the clerk to speak to that a little bit more.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Malachie Azémar]

I've tried to reach them. Unfortunately, their phone numbers and addresses don't work anymore.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. The meeting is not over yet. Could you ask for silence in the room?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Let's suspend. We'll be back in a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm calling this meeting back to order. We are resuming meeting number 136.

As we move to our next panel, I want to welcome our guests today, our witnesses.

We have the Honourable Gary Anandasangaree, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.

We have the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Official Languages, and Minister of Veterans Affairs as well, I believe.

They'll be supported by their officials from the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. We have Valerie Gideon, deputy minister; Georgina Lloyd, assistant deputy minister, northern affairs; Heather McLean, assistant deputy minister, implementation sector; and Christopher Duschenes, director general, indigenous institutions and governance modernization.

From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Colette Kaminsky, senior assistant deputy minister, skills and employment branch, and Wojo Zielonka, chief financial officer.

Ministers and officials, welcome.

Ministers, you will have 10 minutes each for your opening statements, after which we'll move to the rounds of questioning.

We'll start with Minister Anandasangaree.

You have 10 minutes or less, please.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Kwe kwe. Ullukkut. Tansi. Hello. Bonjour.

Let me begin by acknowledging that we are on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Mr. Chair, I am happy to be back here at this committee to answer your questions on topics important to indigenous peoples.

I think it is critical that we acknowledge the long history of colonial systems that have kept indigenous people and communities from fully participating in Canadian society. I have made it a priority to work in partnership with indigenous communities to dismantle these barriers and to move forward in a way that is rooted in self-determination.

We are here to support indigenous communities as they shape their own paths to self-determination, which is in line with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Mr. Chair, identity and indigeneity are deeply personal and complex.

The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples says, “Indigenous peoples have the right to determine their own identity or membership in accordance with their customs...traditions [and practices].”

Our job is to support communities to do this work. Last week at the Assembly of First Nations special chiefs assembly and in some meetings I attended, this very topic came up.

Indigenous peoples know who their citizens are, and we should be allowing them to decide that. It is time to give power back to indigenous peoples, where it belongs.

Indigenous procurement is central to advancing economic reconciliation and ensuring fair opportunities for all. This strategy has been essential to supporting indigenous entrepreneurs and creating jobs at indigenous-led businesses, but we are also transforming the procurement strategy by improving policies, safeguards and processes.

Indigenous people have told us what will work and what does not, and we are listening. We must make the necessary changes in order to do better. We're working with partners to hand over the responsibility of defining and verifying indigenous businesses to the communities themselves.

Under the previous administration, before we formed government, indigenous businesses received only 1% of federal contracts. Once we formed government, engagements with indigenous partners have led our government to implement a mandatory requirement for federal departments and agencies to ensure that a minimum of 5% of the total value of contracts is held by indigenous businesses.

Since that 5% target was implemented, the value of contracts going to indigenous businesses increased by $1.5 billion. That is $1.5 billion going to indigenous people and communities, and that leads to better success for indigenous people as a whole.

Recently we have seen reports of this strategy being taken advantage of. This is why Indigenous Services Canada is mandated to verify the eligibility of businesses receiving contracts under the procurement strategy for indigenous businesses. These audits led to over 1,100 indigenous businesses being removed from the indigenous business directory. We're taking direct action to hold programs accountable and prevent misuse.

For too long, previous governments neglected indigenous peoples. Since 2015, we have been reversing this trend.

One key highlight is the new first nations-led national land registry. This registry is key to unlocking economic opportunities. We have worked in partnership with the First Nations Lands Advisory Board and the Land Title and Survey Authority of B.C. to develop this registry. This will allow first nations to register interests on their land at the speed of business and improve economic opportunities for all.

In the last budget, we advanced the indigenous loan guarantee program to facilitate equity ownership of major projects. This program is determined to ensure that indigenous communities can share in the benefits of major projects in their territories, and on their own terms. The indigenous loan guarantee will help indigenous people share the benefits of major natural resource projects while also generating wealth for communities and support for indigenous-led solutions.

Another key part of advancing economic reconciliation is providing compensation for lost land and other wrongs through the specific claims process.

We have accelerated specific claims resolutions. Working in partnership with first nations from January 1, 2016, to November 30, 2024, 321 claims have been resolved, for a total compensation of $12.6 billion.

I want to talk about two concrete examples. In June, on National Indigenous Peoples Day, I was able to join my colleague Jaime Battiste in the community of the We'koqma'q First Nation to announce the $125-million proposed settlement agreement. I got to meet with the chief and council, along with community members of all ages, to see what this settlement means to them and what it will do.

In October, I travelled to Treaty No. 5, 6, and 10 territories to announce the settling of nine claims worth almost $1.4 billion. These settlements happened under the strategy for expediting resolution of agricultural benefits. This expedited strategy ensures that claims are resolved quickly and gets compensation to first nations faster.

As you can see, Mr. Chair, we are making progress. Over the past five years, we have settled an average of $1.7 billion in claims per year with first nations across Canada, which resulted in nearly 7,000 jobs. This is a significant boost to the first nations-led economy, and it is having a positive impact, a tangible economic impact on communities, not just for today but for generations to come.

Mr. Chair, as a government, we must never tell communities what to do or who they are. I know that committee members and indigenous people have raised concerns about procurement and the indigenous business directory. As this work is led by Minister of Indigenous Services Canada, who I know appeared just before us, I will let my colleagues' words speak more of it. Our role is to support and follow the lead of indigenous peoples as they walk their path of self-determination and prosperity.

I do want to have one reflection before I close.

Mr. Chair, I've spent my entire life on the issue of representation and why representation matters at every level, not just in the elected sense but also in business and in community. At every table, there is a need for representation, particularly for those who have been under-represented. In this particular case, indigenous people are severely under-represented in many areas of our society, but particularly in the area of business and the economy. The indigenous procurement strategy was meant to ensure that at the very minimum, the federal role towards economic reconciliation ensures that representation continues.

I'm glad to speak about this. I think this is an issue that is of critical importance to all of us, and at the very minimum, we can agree that we should be doing more, perhaps in a more enlightened way.

I look forward to the questions and comments from my colleagues here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Next we will be moving on to Minister Petitpas Taylor.

You have 10 minutes or less for your opening remarks.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Minister of Employment]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the committee members for the invitation to be before you this evening.

I would also like to begin by acknowledging that we meet today on the unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

I welcome the chance to join a conversation about issues that I believe can and should be addressed collectively across parties.

The work of this committee helps to guide Parliament as we walk the path of reconciliation.

We are looking for true reconciliation, with renewed nation-to-nation and government-to-government relationships, as well as relationships between the Crown and first nations, the Métis and Inuit, through which we will strengthen partnerships with rights holders.

At the heart of this journey is economic reconciliation. How can we work with our indigenous partners to build a fair and equitable Canada? All departments have a role to play in this work. At Employment and Social Development Canada, we are working to close the skills and opportunities gaps that affect far too many indigenous people.

We created the indigenous skills and employment training program, a co‑developed framework designed to reduce skills and employment gaps between indigenous and non-indigenous people. Organizations have the flexibility to prioritize training and skills development based on the needs of their communities.

The skills and partnership fund fosters partnerships between indigenous organizations and employers. This program supports training that directly connects indigenous peoples to jobs, enhancing access to meaningful economic opportunities.

I would be remiss not to mention, in my capacity as Minister of Veterans Affairs, the ongoing work that my department is doing to improve services and recognition for indigenous veterans. First nations, Inuit and Métis people served Canada with pride, yet often they faced discrimination. The indigenous veterans engagement team works to reduce barriers to access, improve outreach and increase the offering of culturally appropriate services.

We’re also investing in indigenous-led initiatives. Through the veteran and family well-being fund, we have provided funding directly to organizations like the Assembly of First Nations, the Southern Chiefs' Organization and others whose work improves the well-being of indigenous veterans.

More broadly, our government has invested in the next steps on the path of reconciliation through budget 2024. This year’s budget includes indigenous housing and community infrastructure investments of $918 million. This is beyond the $5 billion already available for communities in 2024-25.

A recent report from the Assembly of First Nations found that every dollar invested in first nations infrastructure generates $1.82 in economic output. This additional funding will accelerate work to narrow housing and infrastructure gaps in first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. Specifically, $426 million is earmarked for first nations on reserve, $62 million is targeted towards self-governing and modern treaty first nations, $370 million will go to Inuit communities and $60 million is set aside for Métis communities.

Restoring and promoting language and culture is an important part of healing, reconciliation and the promotion of a strong sense of identity and community.

We are investing $1.8 billion to support indigenous communities in exercising their jurisdiction under An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families.

Budget 2024 supported indigenous cultures by investing over $290 million in indigenous-led efforts to reclaim, revitalize and strengthen indigenous cultures and languages.

There is also an investment of $388 million to support indigenous entrepreneurship and indigenous tourism, to unlock new clean energy opportunities and to support the strategic partnerships initiative.

Together as partners, we must do the work of creating opportunities and more prosperity for indigenous people across Canada so that they can succeed on their own terms.

I hope we can do this work together, and I hope our conversations today will help advance this collective goal.

Again, I want to thank the committee for the invitation. I also want to thank the officials for being here. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Petitpas Taylor.

We will now begin the first round of questions, in which the members will have six minutes.

We're going to start with Mr. Schmale for six minutes, please. The floor is yours.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Minister Anandasangaree, is it appropriate for Randy Boissonnault to remain in the Liberal caucus?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

As you know, each caucus is the master of its own domain, and I will leave that up to the Liberal caucus to decide.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Do you think it's appropriate that he remain in there?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I believe he has taken the right steps to reflect on what's happened and he is trying to defend his name. I do believe that he is doing the right thing at the moment.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Minister Petitpas Taylor, I would ask you the same question.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you so much for that question, and it's always good to see you, MP Schmale.

To elaborate a bit on what my friend and colleague has indicated, I believe that Randy Boissonnault contributes tremendously to our caucus. He contributes tremendously to what is happening in western Canada. He appeared at committee last week and answered a number of questions. I've appreciated serving with him as a member of Parliament in the class of 2015 and also in cabinet in 2021.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Do you think that committing indigenous identity fraud is wrong?

I'll start with you, and then go back to Minister Anandasangaree.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Intentionally misleading Canadians is wrong.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It's the same question.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Do you think it's also harmful?