Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Minister.

Last week we had lots of chiefs in town from all across Canada. I know that you made time for them. I saw Ms. Idlout, and I saw Sébastien at important meetings and functions that they were invited to on behalf of the national chief, where they were able to talk to us about some of the key things that were important to them.

I know there's a House order out there that has a few parties, led by the Conservatives. They believe they know what's best for the indigenous people, so they start telling our committee how we can best help them. I know that in those discussions you had with them, they set out some of the things that were important to them. I saw resolutions around justice. I saw resolutions about water and the need to move fast on Bill C-61. However, when indigenous members get up in the House and attempt to seek unanimous consent on something as fundamentally important as having clean and protected water for first nations communities, Conservatives shout them down before the word “water” can even come out of their mouth.

I'm wondering, Minister, if you think this study is really about helping indigenous economic development or if you think this is more that Conservatives are framing that they know what's best for indigenous people in what we should be studying here at this committee.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We have a point of order. We have Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

He's using the same rationale as the Liberals. How is that relevant to the study today before us?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I'm more than happy to answer that.

I said “indigenous” a number of times during that intervention. It was based on the conversations I've had with indigenous people. You should try it.

The government is trying very much to hear what they're trying to say and hearing from them. I'm asking the minister if she heard from indigenous people last week while they were here and if they were, in fact, advocating what the Conservatives seem to be telling us at this study, or is it something more, including the discussions around water?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Battiste and Mr. Zimmer.

There are about 40 seconds left.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Yes, I met with many first nations communities during the AFN assembly, and water did come up in many of the discussions.

In fact, in Mr. Melillo's riding, there are 42 first nations. As far as I can see, Mr. Melillo has not been to many of those first nations, and people are disappointed when their members of Parliament don't actually visit the communities in their own riding and don't advocate for the priorities of first nations.

I would just say that there's an opportunity to make amends. I get it. We're all busy. Some of these ridings are vast. I'm about to find that out myself with the riding boundary changes. I believe I'll be in the same position as some of my colleagues with many first nations that are remote.

It is important when we have a chance in this House to support first nations priorities, and not having unanimous consent last week was deeply disappointing, including to Chief Moonias, who said that if this legislation passes, it would help raise the standards or even set the standards for their drinking water. Right now, there's nothing there. They hoped it would have gone to the Senate today, and they're disappointed.

You can hear that there was a lot of hopefulness. I know that it's not our last chance. I know the committee worked really hard on that legislation, and I do hope that we'll see it get to the Senate before Christmas so that they can begin their very important study of the bill as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Battiste.

We'll now go to Mr. Lemire for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's fascinating to see people defending a position in various public bodies, such as a parliamentary committee, and to see that, when it's time take action in the House, they don't do so. We saw that last week.

I would like to ask you again about the Yänonhchia' project. That is a fundamental issue in the current context. I'll ask you one more time: Is the brief that you have to submit to the Minister of Finance written? Is a document ready?

The figures are available, we know what they are and we can hel you with that. I sent a letter to Minister Freeland on November 21 to talk about this issue. You have received a copy of it.

I would like to see you take a more concrete step and give us a more official commitment. On this December 9, will you commit to sending that letter to Minister Freeland as soon as possible, to assure us that it will be part of the next budget?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Yes. I've already discussed this program with Ms. Freeland. I also had a meeting with Lance Haymond, the project director for the Yänonhchia' initiative, a very important home ownership program for indigenous families. For the government, it's an opportunity to accelerate its work to make housing affordable for everyone in our country.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Haymond will be with us tomorrow, so we can ask him a follow‑up question on that. Hopefully, his answer will be along the same lines.

Ms. Hajdu, in response to my colleague's question, you said that there was no consensus among the organizations that worked on procurement reform and on how to verify the identity and legitimacy of indigenous businesses.

Can you tell us clearly which of the members of the indigenous procurement working group do not seem to agree with the positions of the Assembly of First Nations or the positions of the Métis and Inuit in general? If a consensus cannot be reached, what are the dissenting voices right now?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

It's not about coming to a consensus on which businesses qualify as indigenous, whether we're talking about first nations, the Métis or Inuit. The problem is in agreeing on the best body to manage the list. That's what the discussions with the partners are about right now.

I think every partner wants to manage a list. However, if each partner has a different list and there are a lot of lists overall, it will be more difficult to achieve the program's objectives. Minister Duclos may have a different opinion, but I think that, if there are 10 or 12 lists, it will be more difficult for departments in terms of procurement.

We have to find an approach that is transparent and very firm, but that is also easy for client departments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Hajdu, thank you very much for your efforts in French. It was easy to understand.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We'll go to Ms. Idlout for two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq.

I want to ask Minister Hajdu a couple of follow-up questions about the indigenous business directory.

You mentioned earlier that you're working with partners to make changes to it. Can you identify who those partners are?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well, of course, you've heard from a lot of them: CCIB, NACCA, the Voyageur Métis corporation—I think I have that in the right order—and ITK with regard to the procurement through ITK. All distinctions are represented. There may be other people on the committee, but....

Do you want to hear from Jessica about the other groups?

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Maybe you could provide that to us in a written response.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

We can, yes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

In your earlier response, you only said “in the...near future”. Can you give a more specific response as to the timeline that you're estimating it to happen in?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I would like to have a conversation with the partners about what timeline they feel comfortable with.

This is already accelerating what was supposed to be a five-year process. I think that we can't wait the full five years to transfer the list to an indigenous self-determined approach. Rather than impose a deadline on partners, what I think I'd like to do is come back with a timeline or provide you in writing with a timeline once we've had that conversation with partners. They need to be comfortable as well with the approach. It's important to me that I don't impose a deadline.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much.

I do have a follow-up question as well for Minister Duclos regarding article 24.

I know that it also states that the Nunavut Inuit labour force analysis will happen. The last one occurred in 2018. I wonder if you can give us an update as to the work of the labour force analysis and the recommendations that may have been made to ensure that article 24 is being implemented.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We'll make sure that the follow-up happens. We'll include all of the benefit criteria that matter to that important directive, including, as you've mentioned, the aspects of employment, training and skill development; ownership; and the overall presence in the Nunavut settlement area.

It will also speak to the criteria that are being used to evaluate bids. It'll be the process piece, but also, obviously—and equally important—the outcomes piece. We will make sure that we work with you and that whatever is provided to you is satisfactory and answers your legitimate request.