Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Jacques T. Watso]

One of the things that is problematic for first nations is the self-identification that is being encouraged by the federal public service under the Liberal government. This is a practice that should not be done and that needs to be reviewed.

It is up to indigenous communities to determine who their members are. Above all, we are subject to the Indian Act, which is not the case for people who self-identify as indigenous. That is a problem, because we are the legitimate aboriginals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

You have 45 seconds.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Yes.

I appreciate, again, what you said. I think what's very concerning to us.... I have indigenous communities in my northern British Columbia riding. They've been deeply offended by what has happened here. The cover-up makes it all the worse. It's one thing for somebody to make a false claim and quickly apologize for doing so. However, when they cover it up and seem to be doing everything they can to not have the truth come out, it's a sad testament to this current government.

Again, thank you for testifying today.

[Jacques T. Watso]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Zimmer.

Ms. Semaganis, welcome back.

We're doing a brief sound check with Ms. Semaganis—for real this time. Hopefully, we can make it work. Thanks for your patience.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I want to give a proper welcome to Ms. Crystal Semaganis, leader of the Ghost Warrior Society.

Before moving to questions, you'll have five minutes to provide some introductory remarks.

With that, Ms. Semaganis, the floor is yours.

[Crystal Semaganis, Leader, Ghost Warrior Society]

Thank you.

My name is Crystal. Crystal Semaganis nitsikahson. I am leader of the Ghost Warrior Society. We are not an elitist organization. We are a grassroots organization made up entirely of volunteers who are Métis, first nations and Inuit from across this country and the United States. Because we are grassroots, we have opened up our lines to hear from our people on first nations, Métis and Inuit identity fraud and how it impacts us.

On February 28, 2014, my mother gave testimony at the Indian residential school trials in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. On March 3, 2014, she died. I believe it was from having to relive that kind of trauma. The records were there. My mother was taken to St. Alban’s Indian Residential School in Prince Albert and was there for seven straight years. She never left. Those records are there. However, the burden of proof is seriously misplaced in this country.

Why is it that the colonials insisted that my mother relive her trauma, with all these additional checks and balances, to award her an Indian residential school settlement? Contrast that with settlers who are opportunistic. You've seen Michelle Latimer succeed at claiming to be indigenous, yet all they required her to do was check a box to access millions—billions—of dollars.

At the Ghost Warrior Society, we have long been immersed in the effects of pretendianism on our communities and our everyday lives. There is serious disparity. This is something that I have seen as a sixties scoop survivor. I have seen how this society works for settlers who live in this country. Then I see how it does not work for people like me. We are unleashed upon society, expecting to have rights and privileges equal to those of other Canadian citizens, when that is not true for us. There is considerable disparity.

Truth and reconciliation sought to mitigate those colonial harms and colonial violence when it comes to Indian residential schools, sixties scoop survivors and people who have been displaced through really bad child welfare programs. We recently saw the story of the Inuit receiving an apology for the shooting of their sled dogs. Colonial harms and the colonial violence visited upon first nations, Métis and Inuit people is what truth and reconciliation is all about. It is not about checking a box. It is not about self-identification.

When you have colonial interference in the lives of first nations, Métis and Inuit, and then you get the exploitation that comes from false claims of indigenous identity, then here we are. Here we are at the standing committee. Here we are trying to address this. I thank all governments for coming together in this room to finally address it. However, from my perspective at the grassroots, knowing the actual impacts it has on my people, it's like Mother Earth is on fire and here we are with a teaspoon of water to try to quell this raging inferno that is pretendianism. It's eating up housing. It's eating up economic development opportunities. We have the exploitation of Gladue sentencing in the justice system. It is far-reaching. It goes beyond procurement, but procurement is where we can see the actual dollar signs in terms of how impactful and how exploitative the false claims of first nations, Métis and Inuit identity have been.

There have to be checks and balances. You cannot impose checks and balances on first nations, Métis and Inuit people to define who we are and then just allow self-identification or the self-declaration of indigenous identity that will allow these people to enter into contracts and some very suspect partnerships with indigenous people.

On a final note, I would like to reiterate the acronym CPAIN, which stands for corporations posing as indigenous nations. In our volunteer work over the past three or so years, we have tracked over 300 fraudulent corporations that exist in Canada that seek to present the fact that they are indigenous when in fact they are not. They're essentially hobby clubs. However, they enjoy unfettered access to indigenous resources.

The bulk of pretendianism is a settler identification problem. Those are the words of my colleague Trevino Brings Plenty.

I know my time is up, so I'm just going to leave it there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Semaganis.

With that, we're going to move to Mr. McLeod.

You'll have six minutes with the floor.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the presenters today. A very interesting discussion is happening.

I'm probably the only sitting MP who has gone to a residential school. I received compensation for my attendance at an Indian residential school, and for attending a federal Indian day school. I received two different levels of compensation, but I didn't put in a claim for abuse, because I didn't want to admit that I was a victim. I didn't want that to define me, so I took what was offered and walked away.

I think many people did that, because we grew up in a time when we were taught to be ashamed of who we were. We were denied the use of our languages. My parents both spoke three languages. I speak maybe one and a half. My children speak one. We weren't allowed to hunt migratory birds at certain times of the year. The first nations people in my community couldn't vote, and they couldn't consume alcohol. That made it very difficult. Most people didn't want to be recognized as indigenous.

Now times have changed. We're starting to see programs come forward, especially with the Liberal government—decent programs that are supporting indigenous people and indigenous governments. The federal government has had a procurement program in place for over 30 years.

I'd like to ask both of you if you could tell me why you think it's taken this long for the conversation to happen around the indigenous business directory. Is it because we're finally starting to see the government recognize that it has to do more, so there's an opportunity that people are trying to take advantage of?

[Crystal Semaganis]

I could jump in and answer that.

There are a few reasons.

Number one, first and foremost, is the dismal economy. For instance, we see the exploitation of first nations, Métis and Inuit housing. We estimate that only 30% of tenants in that housing are authentically indigenous. The rest is a checked box. When you have an economy that puts a strain on all Canadians, they look for opportunities and strategies to acquire more indigenous resources.

I would say that the bulk of pretendianism is to access first nations, Métis and Inuit resources and to exploit them.

[Jacques T. Watso]

To follow up on that, there have been a lot of interesting programs that have been put forward, whether by this government or previous governments, to help indigenous businesses or entrepreneurship. However, again, the goodwill of these programs has been tarnished by people self-identifying as indigenous and dipping into the funds that are available for first nations people. It hinders the community development of our nations across Canada. This is the problem we want to raise: Self-identification undermines our self-determination.

The time I spend fighting people who self-identify is time I do not spend developing my own nation.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I'd like to ask, also, whether you could tell me what you think about the commitment by the Minister of Indigenous Services. She stated that she'd like to work with indigenous people and indigenous partners to transfer control of the indigenous business directory to indigenous people.

Do you think transferring the directory away from the Government of Canada will lead to more integrity in the procurement process?

[Crystal Semaganis]

I can jump in on this one.

It is our sincere belief that the best authentication processes come from first nations, Métis and Inuit people ourselves. It comes from us, not colonial interference and colonial frameworks that have yet to do something fair and equitable in terms of who we are. Black robes do not define who indigenous people are.

[Jacques T. Watso]

In the spirit of reconciliation, access to funds administered by first nations members is desirable. When we talk about trust, that is what trust is, because we are accountable to the government and to all these sources of funding. We are in the best position to administer and manage these funds, and to ensure the well-being of our communities' economic development.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello, kwai, Mr. Watso. It's an honour to meet you.

I wonder if you could tell us, based on your long experience, what you think about pretendians among the Abenakis across the border. What tools do you have to defend against this? In your answer, could you please talk about the steps you've taken internationally and with the United Nations? That could give us some insight into this problem.

[Jacques T. Watso]

Yes. I'll answer fast.

I'm a member of the Abenaki First Nation of Odanak, located in southern Quebec along the U.S. border. Our territory transcends borders and covers all of New England. Past colonial wars pushed us into the northern end of our traditional territory, all the way to the current Odanak reserve.

We have inhabited this territory since time immemorial. In the United States, there is a trend of self-declaration, particularly in the state of Vermont. In 2005, several false tribes self-identified as Abenaki. They petitioned the United States Bureau of Indian Affairs for acknowledgement, but their petition was turned down.

However, in the United States, there are federated states and the federal government, and they're all independent. The federated state of Vermont recognized four false Abenaki tribes by not requiring genealogy to be submitted as historical proof. It was a purely political decision that had an impact on my nation, because those people are rewriting our history. They're erasing us and replacing us. Those people are receiving services and public funds based on a false identity.

We challenged this decision with the Vermont senate. For over 25 years, we've been fighting against self-declared groups in Quebec. Last month, we also travelled to New York to stand before the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues and speak out about this situation, because it affects not only indigenous people in Quebec and Canada, but all indigenous peoples, such as the Sami people and the indigenous peoples of the Philippines and Taiwan.

We hosted a round table on issues affecting the Abenakis of Odanak and other indigenous peoples around the world. We told them that we're having the same problems as they are with identity fraud, which is also having repercussions on the economic development of their communities.

In July, we went to Geneva to speak at the Expert Mechanism on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, a branch of the UN Human Rights Council, in order to denounce a provision in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples that provides for the right to self-determination.

The UN's self-identification measures were put in place to protect peoples who were being oppressed in various countries. In Canada, however, this measure is having the opposite effect by enabling Canadians to self-identify as indigenous so they can qualify for grants, further their career and enjoy all the perks that come with this status. They're financially motivated.

Identity theft is a serious problem for the Abenakis of Odanak. Since we're located in the south, in the St. Lawrence valley, we were the first to come into contact with the French, followed by the British and finally the Canadians. Our nation is one of the most appropriated, and our identity is stolen more often than any other nation in Quebec.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's very interesting. Thank you very much, Mr. Watso.

Ms. Semaganis, the Ghost Warrior Society, the organization you lead, is proposing a standard of four generations for determining authentic indigenous identity. The organization believes that, beyond that, the subject has no lived experience as an indigenous person, no intergenerational trauma and no genetic memory associated with that background.

I would be curious to hear your comments on that. Do you think this could be a constructive solution that we could study in committee and that could apply to the general public?

[Crystal Semaganis]

There was no interpretation for the last part of that question. My interpretation was not working. I got most of that.

Could somebody reiterate that last statement in English?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Sure. I was asking whether the Ghost Warrior Society's proposal to recognize four generations as the standard for determining authentic indigenous identity could be a solution that our committee should consider as a recommendation and whether it should also apply to society in general.

[Crystal Semaganis]

I am preparing a parliamentary brief—a presentation that outlines seven clear recommendations.

Of those seven recommendations, one includes the use of the term “indigenous”. It should be changed to “first nations, Métis and Inuit”, so we are more specific about whom we are addressing.

Another one is a sincere recommendation to do away with self-identification of indigenous identity. To just sign a declaration that one is indigenous is problematic and has always been open to exploitation and failure. Here, in 2024, we see the massive failure of self-identification. It is not an equitable, fair or honest process.

As we have seen with the indigenous procurement fallout, there are many interests—not only individual but also corporate, private and public—that exploit the additional resources that were created by truth and reconciliation. Without deterrents and some real sanctions imposed by government, not only on future endeavours but also on past endeavours.... If somebody who has already exploited the program sees absolutely no consequences, what the general public sees, and what an organization like ours sees, is a system where it's a free-for-all for our resources and very limited programs.

I must reiterate that these programs are verifiable lifelines for our people. I mentioned this in previous committees. We are not sitting on fee-simple land. We cannot mortgage our properties. We cannot do that, because the underlying title belongs to the Crown. We already have these disadvantages. Also, our cultural ways of being, such as kinship and sharing, put us at a disadvantage with respect to colonial ways of doing, such as having economies. When there is an inadequate framework in charge of indigenous procurement, you severely limit the social, economic and cultural mobility of our people, much to the detriment of our people.

Once again, I cannot stress enough that these are very limited resources. These are lifelines being exploited, so I have great explanations of these seven recommendations.

I apologize for going over time.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you. Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

Next, we'll go to Ms. Gazan for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much to the witnesses for being here.

My first questions are for you, Mr. Watso.

I have a real issue with the whole crisis of pretendianism. I said it in the House the other day. We have all of these people using very limited resources, and getting economic benefit, who don't have to deal with the things we have to deal with. My colleague MP McLeod spoke about the intergenerational impacts of attending residential school—the sixties scoop and child welfare systems—but they get all the economic benefit. That was very clear to me. I worked in academia for many years, and there were so many people who got research grants on the basis of being indigenous. They got multi-million dollar research grants, and they weren't even indigenous. They had all the privileges without the things we have to deal with, including just being safe on the streets, especially indigenous women and girls. It's also boys and men, in fact, in terms of the violence we experience just by living.

In saying that, I asked one of the last witnesses, Dr. Palmater, about membership lists and the fact that many nations still don't have control of their membership lists—that those decisions are made about us but without us.

In terms of procurement, how would it help if first nations could regain sovereignty and control over those membership lists?

[Jacques T. Watso]

For the Abénakis Nation of Odanak, we have a list, a citizenship code, that's been....

I'll switch to French.

The Abénakis Nation of Odanak has had a membership code since 2006. We're reviewing it this year, and we have control over our list of members. We strongly encourage first nations to do the same. The Indian Act sets out who's indigenous and who's not, but we know who our members and descendants are.

Many cases have been heard at the federal level before the Supreme Court of Canada and before the Supreme Court of British Columbia, including the McIvor case, which Ms. McIvor won following the intervention of the Abenakis of Odanak. The Descheneaux case and Bill S‑3 are also thanks to the Abenakis of Odanak. Membership is important.

We need to be the only ones who have control over our membership lists. We know who our members and descendants are. Many people self-identify as Abenakis descended from a root ancestor. However, we even know who our root ancestors are. We're in the best position to know who our members are, and the communities should have full access to the membership lists.