Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Jacques T. Watso]

That's a complex question, because the process varies from region to region. Indigenous business people should be treated as citizens who have a business plan and who are trying to secure the economic viability of their community. They need access to financing. We need to get rid of the excessive bureaucracy that was created because of the lack of trust in first nations.

You mentioned racism. Yes, it is a form of racism toward us. This lack of trust constitutes economic racism. We're the stewards of our lands, and we want to promote the development of our communities and have fair and equal access to financing. This is a matter of trusting the voices of first nations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gazan. That's two minutes right there, which is going to complete our second panel.

I want to thank our witnesses for their time, for being flexible and for all their testimony. If there is something you wanted to share with the committee that you weren't able to, please submit that in writing at your earliest convenience, as we're going to get into writing a report very soon based on what we've heard.

With that, I just want to again say thank you very much.

We are briefly going to suspend as we welcome our next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I call this meeting back to order.

I want to welcome our third and final panel of the day.

I want to welcome back Mr. Keith Henry, president and chief executive officer of the BC Métis Federation, and Anthony Wingham, president of the Waceya Métis Society. We appreciate both of them coming back after we had some extraordinary circumstances a couple of days ago with a suspicious package that caused us to evacuate.

I appreciate your rejoining us today.

As well, we are being joined by Dr. Angela Jaime, vice-provost, indigenous engagement, University of Saskatchewan.

We're going to start with opening remarks by Dr. Jaime and then continue with Anthony Wingham. I know, Mr. Henry, that you've already provided some, so I think we'll go into questions right after this.

Dr. Jaime, the floor is yours. You have five minutes to provide opening remarks.

[Dr. Angela Jaime, Vice-Provost, Indigenous Engagement, University of Saskatchewan, As an Individual]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for the invitation to speak today. My name is Dr. Angela Jaime. I'm the vice-provost of indigenous engagement at the University of Saskatchewan. I'm here to share with you the University of Saskatchewan's deybwewin-taapwaywin-tapwewin indigenous truth policy. This policy is the first of its kind in Canada at a post-secondary institution. It is for the verification of indigenous membership and citizenship documentation.

USask has more than 27,000 students, and nearly 4,000 of those students are indigenous. Our policy's purpose is to protect indigenous-specific spaces designed and designated for indigenous people. The core value of the policy is principles over personalities.

Part of our policy very clearly states:

Verification documentation will be required for all incoming assertions of Indigenous membership/citizenship by members of the university community where that claim may result in a material advantage or where the absence of verification would be otherwise contrary to the principles recognized in this policy.

Our policy is not only about identity. We don't use this terminology anywhere in the policy. It is about who claims you. The university is also not the adjudicator of the documents we accept. It is the inherent sovereign right of indigenous people to determine their own membership and citizenship. We listen to indigenous governments, and they tell us what documentation they want us to accept from their members or citizens. We follow what they intend us to accept from Inuit, Métis and first nations people in Canada.

Any student or employee at the University of Saskatchewan seeking a material advantage—whether that be an award, a scholarship or funding—is required to proceed through our verification process. Our portal system, designed in-house, collects the information and stores the documentation for review and verification. My office is the only office that does that verification.

Our policy is part of our larger intention to decolonize the institution. Through our indigenous strategy ohpahotân-oohpaahotaan, we are committed to ensuring that indigenous space and resources go to indigenous people. This is about being proactive on indigenous verification, as opposed to reactive to fraudulent claims of membership and citizenship.

Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Dr. Jaime.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Wingham for five minutes of opening remarks.

[Anthony Wingham, President, Waceya Métis Society]

[Witness spoke in Northern Michif and provided the following text:]

Tân'si Anthony nisihkâson Prince Albert, Saskatchewan Ohci niya Langley, British Columbia niwîkin.

[English]

Hello. My name is Anthony Wingham. I was born in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. I live in Langley, B.C.

Thank you, Chair and committee members, for the opportunity to speak today.

As I said, my name is Anthony Wingham. I come here not only as a local Métis president serving my community in Langley and White Rock, B.C., but as someone who works with indigenous youth entrepreneurs and leaders across the country. I've listened to Inuit voices in the north, first nations on the coast and Métis people in the Prairies and beyond. I've collaborated with organizations such as the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, witnessing first-hand the potential of our indigenous businesses.

Through the national indigenous youth business advisory council, I've worked with young entrepreneurs to access government programs, navigate complex funding landscapes and find their footing in the fast-changing markets. Serving on the BC Indigenous Housing Society's board and the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade's advisory council has shown me how deeply economic development, housing sustainability, global partnerships and good governance are intertwined. From these experiences, one truth remains clear: Indigenous economic development isn't just about financial transactions; it's about building trust, strengthening governance, expanding capacity and ensuring that real opportunities reach our people.

First nations, Inuit and Métis communities are striving to create sustainable, values-driven businesses. We are developing supportive networks and cultivating the next generation of indigenous leaders and entrepreneurs, who want to enter new sectors, scale innovative ideas and contribute meaningfully to the Canadian economy. However, a persistent barrier stands in our way: fraudulent actors who infiltrate procurement opportunities meant for indigenous businesses.

When non-indigenous companies masquerade as indigenous-owned, or when they install token indigenous partners with no real decision-making authority, they divert the resources away from those who truly need them. This practice not only undermines the credibility of set-asides and other supportive measures, but also removes the optimism from young entrepreneurs who see how easily outsiders exploit the system. They ask how we can compete on a level playing field, how we can ensure that the contracts are actually reserved for our communities and why enforcement is so lax that some people can simply game a system designed to lift us up.

Indigenous entrepreneurs consistently call for policies with real teeth and verification measures that ensure indigenous-owned businesses are genuinely rooted in their communities, accountable to local governance structures and recognized by respected indigenous institutions. They want a strong reporting and compliance framework so that everyone, from the awarding body to the community members on the ground, can see that indigenous voices are making decisions, sharing profits and building their own capacity.

For many young indigenous entrepreneurs, these procurement opportunities are a vital first step toward growth. When the system works as intended and contracts are verified and given to indigenous-owned businesses that invest in training, community projects and future bids, everybody benefits. Communities can begin to take real ownership of their economic future by reinvesting profits into scholarships for youth, improving local infrastructure and fostering a cycle of prosperity and resilience.

We must remember that this isn't about adding more boxes to check. It's about ensuring that programs to design and advance indigenous self-determination and economic security actually fulfill their purpose. It's about confirming that when we say these contracts are for indigenous businesses, we mean it. Such reforms aren't about punishing outsiders, but honouring the intent of these programs.

Empowering grassroots indigenous entrepreneurs is among the clearest paths to economic resilience. Strengthening verification processes, enhancing transparency in how the contracts are awarded and firmly enforcing rules against fraudulent participation will restore faith in these initiatives. Indigenous businesses that trust the integrity of set-asides will invest in themselves, hire locally, train apprentices and keep wealth circulating within their communities. Over time, this will create improved education, better housing, healthier families and stronger governments.

I'm grateful for the committee's attention to these issues. I'm hopeful that any steps taken will strengthen enforcement, enhance authenticity in procurement and restore the faith that indigenous communities place in these programs.

Thank you again for inviting me to share my perspective. Maarsii.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Wingham.

With that, we're going to move to our first round of questioning. It's the six-minute round.

We'll start with Mr. Shields for six minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We read another headline this morning in The Walrus: “An Acclaimed Canadian Playwright Faces Questions of Pretendianism”. This has to be a disheartening process when you see the recurrence of this in headlines.

To the vice-provost, Dr. Jaime, I think the office you described is one of a kind, probably as a reaction to what has happened at the university in the past. Am I wrong?

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

No, you're correct. This policy is a reaction to the Carrie Bourassa situation we had about three and a half years ago. We're now thinking about how we can be proactive to create space that makes sure we're doing everything we can to do verification and listen to the indigenous communities.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I appreciate the comment you made about “who claims you”, in the sense of establishing documentation as directed by an indigenous community. I think that's one of the critical pieces we've heard from witnesses: Who is the identification process following? I think you are clearly stating how very important this is for you in terms of your policy.

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

That is correct. Our process looks to have memoranda of understanding or to have agreements with indigenous communities, with the first nations, Métis and Inuit people of Canada. We do that with Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, with Métis Nation-Saskatchewan and other provincial governments of Métis people, as well as first nations bands directly. They determine what documentation we accept for verification.

That doesn't mean that it has to be a status card. A lot of bands within Saskatchewan are specifically asking that we accept a letter from them directly stating that they claim this individual as their member. It's about looking to the indigenous bands, the first nations bands, the Métis people, their government and the Inuit government to determine what that documentation is and who their members are.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

We've heard from many witnesses—some of us know the history—about the disenfranchisement of indigenous people for various reasons. This gives an opportunity for the indigenous bands to have people reclaim the status they may have lost for different reasons historically.

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

That is correct. For first nations people specifically, if their band writes a letter saying that they are a member of their band and they claim them as a member, that supersedes any Government of Canada determination that they are non-status. Again, it is the bands that make that determination.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You also talked about this being the first of its kind. Have you been in contact with other people or organizations—or has the government, for example, been in contact with you—about the policy you've established?

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

Absolutely. I've done presentations for countless universities across the country and government agencies in Canada and also internationally.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Are you finding, besides making the presentations, that there is interest? Do you see somebody starting to do this at other places, like governments, following your example?

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

Absolutely. There are several examples of universities and other post-secondary institutions that are instituting their own policies and writing their own processes. The tri-agency has come out with a policy that they're piloting this year. Much of it is based on the policy at the University of Saskatchewan. We're encouraging entities, units and post-secondary institutions to use our policy in whatever way they see fit in terms of how it might help them.

We know that we didn't have a road map to develop our own policy, and we don't want others to feel like they have to start from scratch too. It's not one-size-fits-all, but I'm very proud of the policy the indigenous people at USask came up with.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Another thing we often hear in this discussion is about consequences and enforcement. Is that something that you believe is part of the process to stop people in the general population out there from finding ways to do this? Should there be consequences and enforcement?

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

Absolutely, there should be consequences. Theft and fraudulent claims should have a consequence. Our policy keeps those individuals who are making fraudulent claims from actually having access to this space. We're the gatekeepers. We're holding the line, if you will. There absolutely should be consequences.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

When it comes to fraud and the types of consequences and enforcement, is this the kind of thing that should be enforced in criminal penalties or something of that nature?

[Dr. Angela Jaime]

There are definitely conversations being had about consequences at the criminal level. For our purposes, we don't actually have that ability yet. In the federal government and provincial governments, those conversations absolutely need to be happening, and there need to be indigenous voices directing that.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Shields.

Next, we'll go to Mr. McLeod for six minutes.

You have the floor.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us here today. It is a very important discussion we're having. I think the discussion could probably carry on for a long time and go into different areas that need to be addressed.

Yesterday, I watched the news and I watched all the premiers from across the country get together and sit at a table with all the chairs behind it. Among the 13 premiers, I counted three indigenous premiers, which made me feel very good. I was very proud of that. In the Northwest Territories, the biggest employers in the private sector are indigenous companies, especially development corporations that work with the mines and other sectors. It's very important that we have this. However, I still have a lot of questions in my mind that I don't have answers for. I ask myself why we don't have more indigenous MPs. We need 100. You can bet the tone of indigenous issues would change if we had that many in the House.

We also have large economic projects across the country that neighbour indigenous communities, but indigenous people are not migrating to those areas to work. Why is that?

The biggest potential in the communities I represent—I mostly represent indigenous communities—is tourism. The potential for tourism is great in the Northwest Territories. We have pristine lands. We have people living in our communities who know the waters and lands, and they know how to hunt and fish. However, we don't have operators in our communities. There are very few indigenous operators.

I see Keith Henry is joining us today. Keith is also wearing another hat. He's here on behalf of the BC Métis Federation, but he's also the president of the Indigenous Tourism Association of Canada. I want to ask him if he could talk about some of the barriers to tourism and economic development he's observed for a while. I know Keith has been involved in tourism for a long time.

Could I ask you that question as a starting point?

[Keith Henry]

Thank you for the question. I think it's a really welcome question, Mr. McLeod. It's a pleasure seeing you and several of the individuals here today.

When we talk about this panel and the importance of indigenous economic development beyond the challenges of identifying businesses, tourism is a really good example of where the challenges manifest. When we talk about authentic indigenous tourism, that means indigenous tourism that's owned and operated by indigenous people. It's very important to consumers, whether they are domestic or international, and whether it's in Northwest Territories or anywhere else in the country.

The number one challenge we have continues to be around access to capital. I do know this is in the report—that's part of the recommendations—but access to capital needs to be discussed in a more complex way. It's not about just enhancing access through indigenous financial institutions; the challenge is that the investments that enable indigenous tourism to build to reach its potential are woefully inadequate.

We've done an economic analysis with the Conference Board of Canada, and we've shared that with our partners over this last year. There needs to be an investment of about $2.6 billion across the country and a significant investment in places like Northwest Territories. That's to help businesses make sure that they can compete at a market and export-ready level.

The potential is there, but if you don't know how to work in the sales channels, and if those indigenous operators, whether they're Inuit, first nations or Métis, don't have that infrastructure and the ability to execute the sale, to market and to promote in an indigenous-led way, it's really difficult to compete. The space is being occupied by non-indigenous marketing organizations that are driving visitors to more non-indigenous-led experiences, even though this is part of tourism under Destination Canada.

If we're serious about indigenous tourism in this country, it's going to take more than that. There are just not enough resources in the system to build those businesses. For example, in the Northwest Territories, there could be tremendous opportunity, but they're going to need to build proper accommodations and infrastructure that just aren't there. Small loans of $50,000, $100,000 or $250,000 are simply not going to be enough. We're talking about developing major infrastructure so that, in the long run, the return on those investments would be significant. Until we address that challenge, I think we're going to be seeing modest benefits.

In terms of the economic benefits, tourism in this country is a big business. Most of you may or may not know that 60% to 70% of Canadians want to enjoy indigenous experiences. For international visitors, it's one in three, but we only see 2% of the sale right now. There's a significant gap between the potential and what we can execute, because there are just not enough authentic indigenous experiences, so there's that element.

The other element that I want to quickly touch on, whether it's in the Northwest Territories or elsewhere, is that we need laws around identity protection and cultural protection. The gift shop market in this country is huge, and the number of made-in-China, made-in-India, made-in-everywhere inauthentic indigenous printed products being sold in gift shops in this country are worth billions of dollars. Getting proper legislation through indigenous economic development or economic strategy around making sure that indigenous products benefit indigenous artists and indigenous communities will in itself drive literally billions of dollars of important revenues back to indigenous people.

I know that people have different views on the U.S. right now, but for all its challenges, the one thing they've done right is that they do have cultural protections for the artists and the sale of artisan products, which we do not have in Canada. We need to fix that now, not in five years. That in itself will be a massive economic benefit to the artists and will drive money back to many different communities and families. So that's—