I think one of the issues that we routinely see as indigenous physicians who work in the community—there are very few of us who do that—is that we are left out of the decision-making process, and we're actually not asked about our routine experiences that we have as we interface with these programs.
When I talk with other allied health professionals like pharmacists, optometrists, opticians and nurses, they have the same experiences when it comes to these programs. I think that's one of the biggest challenges. We actually need to speak with, dialogue and have conversations with the users of these programs, who then can articulate these types of experiences that are real world and real time with real people of what they routinely go through on a regular basis.
I know that in the previous panel the importance of having chaperones was raised. Chaperones can be life-saving for individuals who routinely face systemic racism within the health care system, because they're going to be the ones who advocate and see that in real time. We know what happened with Joyce Echaquan, as well as many others within the health care system of Canada, where people are dying because of systemic racism.
We actually need to have conversations with the users of the program, with the bureaucrats who are often forced to sign non-disclosure agreements that they can't talk about the injustices they see within the program. You can talk with some of the Indigenous Services Canada nurses I interface with routinely who see the injustices but are unable to bring them to the attention of media because of these NDAs that they're forced to sign. Under their own regulatory profession and advocacy as nurses, they're not able to bring that forward.
I think there are many issues. Those are just the tip of the iceberg, and I think this conversation needs to be expanded to include more people.