Evidence of meeting #22 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you, Ms. Bérubé.
We'll now go to Ms. McPherson.
Ms. McPherson, you have six minutes.
5 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you for allowing me to participate in this committee meeting today.
Thank you to the witnesses for their testimony. It's been very illuminating.
Ms. Idlout, I'd like to ask you some questions. I'd like to get a bit of a sense of what it is like to be an escort for patients and to provide that support. Could you take a moment to tell us a bit about how difficult it is to be an escort for a patient?
5 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
I can. It's really hard having to leave to be an escort, especially when you have kids and you have to leave them behind. You're bringing the patient to the appointments. If they need surgery, for example, you're preparing them for that. It requires a lot of time. It gets really hard. Most times I wonder why people who are receiving surgery can't have two escorts.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Yes. Thank you.
I'm a mother, and we've heard testimony today about the impacts that would have. I can only imagine how difficult it would be, not just for the patient to leave their children behind but also for the escort to have to leave their children behind, sometimes for a very long period of time.
In addition to an escort's having to leave their family, can you talk about the experience of having to leave a job behind? Is that something that happens on a regular basis, or that has happened?
5:05 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
Yes. It has happened to me quite a few times. I work full time. Most times I need to escort my grandmother when she's going to hospital. When I escort her, since she is not my dependant and is not eligible to be my dependant, I have to go on leave without pay.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
You have to do that every single time. The income impact on escorts is very challenging, then.
5:05 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
Yes. I'm the only one in the house with a job, so that takes a huge toll on our income.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Are there examples of individuals who are ever able to earn an income when they are an escort for patients?
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Okay. Thank you.
Could you tell me roughly how many days or weeks or months you were away from home when you were an escort for your grandmother or for other family members?
5:05 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
The longest was three weeks.
5:05 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
Yes. Most times, it's two days to a week.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
For those three weeks, as the solely employed person in your household, you had to take time away from your job, without pay, to support your grandmother.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Can you tell us, if you're comfortable doing so, about the mental strain or about some of the additional difficulties of being an escort, in addition to the financial burden? Can you perhaps talk a little about the mental strain on you, on members of your household and on members of your community?
5:05 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
It gets to a point where I wonder how I will be able to feed my children. How will I pay the bills on time? Who's going to look after them while I'm away? It's really hard, mentally, to be away and to have to worry about them. Who's going to feed them? Who's going to take care of them? Who's going to put food on the table?
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I'm sorry you have to deal with that. We've heard in other testimony that every person has a right to the health care they require. It should not come at the expense of their community, their family, their children or their own well-being. I'm very sorry you have to endure that.
Finally, can you perhaps talk a bit about what it would mean to you and to other members of your community if escorts could be paid for the work they do, escorting their loved ones to treatment outside of the community?
5:05 p.m.
Officer, Compensation and Benefits, As an Individual
If escorts were paid, it would be less stressful wondering how we're going to get transportation. Most of the time, if there are no drivers, we have to pay for our transportation. If we were getting paid, we wouldn't worry so much about having food on the table, and being on leave without pay wouldn't be so scary.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you for your testimony. It's very important. Thank you for taking the time to share your story with us.
Mr. Chair, I will cede the remainder of my time.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you, Ms. McPherson.
We'll now begin a second round. We'll get through at least four.
Mr. Vidal, you have five minutes.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all the witnesses here today, as well, for their testimony and for sharing—with honest concern—some of the things they face.
Grand Chief Daniels, I want to talk with you about your navigator position for a couple of minutes.
I was looking at your organization's website and the work the navigator does. Back on May 3, we had Dr. James Makokis here. He's a Plains Cree family physician, and he shared how, to get many services covered through the NIHB, there has to be a fair amount of advocacy on his part, on behalf of patients. My expectation is that your community members have faced similar situations. You talked about the inconsistent application of policies. If I'm making the right connections, that's where your navigator position comes in.
My questions for you are as follows. Would you share some of the challenges that are faced? Is it the bureaucracy or the process? How has your navigator position been used to address some of that?
5:10 p.m.
Southern Chiefs' Organization Inc.
Obviously, the navigator has done a lot of advocacy and navigation, within the NIHB, trying to find solutions to some of the problems our citizens are facing. It's been a tremendous help, I think, in connecting the dots and providing support for many of our citizens. It is one position in a system of hundreds of thousands, in many instances. It is a Monday-to-Friday, nine-to-five position for one person.
The impact can be measured in relative terms. I don't have the day-to-day numbers in front of me, because I haven't been specifically briefed on that in terms of impact or client inflow. I can say that it is a relatively small part of all the existing problems outside of that, in terms of how the NIHB approves, doesn't approve, communicates and connects with communities and the services in communities on reserve. In addition, I don't think there is as much of a presence off reserve, except that they would provide, I think, some of the expenses or approvals of costs associated with health.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
I was going to go down that road a bit further, but in the amount of time I have left, I'm going to switch topics and go to something else you referred to, because there's a link to things in my riding.
You talked about the issue with medical taxis and some of the associated costs. We've seen some really significant numbers in the context of fuel prices and inflation. What I'm hearing in my riding is that some of these medical taxi businesses are actually going to cease to operate. That's going to create a huge issue in my northern Saskatchewan riding.
I'm curious if you've heard those kinds of concerns among the first nations you serve, as well. Is there some risk of that becoming a real issue?
5:10 p.m.
Southern Chiefs' Organization Inc.
Absolutely. What's going on is huge in terms of what the additional costs are. Food security is a huge problem that's going on and a concern.
Even our nurses have been restricted from the north, except in emergencies only, as a result of the high need for nurses in the urban areas. It reflects how first nations communities are not the priority here. It's really focused on the urban areas in terms of how health is managed in the region. It's for those reasons that we need independence from these provincial systems in some ways. We have to take care of ourselves.
We travelled internationally to create a value-added model in partnership with Cuba at one time. We're looking to provide health care service experts for our communities. We also had the ability to train our citizens within the health system over there.
That could have created some solutions to the problems that we experienced with COVID, although we weren't given that ability. We weren't given that opportunity. We were shipping people out of Manitoba, because the system wasn't able to take on the crisis.
Now we're seeing another example of this here in Manitoba, where our nurses are being taken away. In a case like that, where we're not being prioritized, it's quite simple that the system is not putting first nations in the place where we need to be. There's already an 11-year life expectancy gap. It's terrible for our elders, who need to be passing on that knowledge.
We need to create our own system. It needs to be independent. We need to have our health experts looking out for us. Until there's trust built.... I don't know. It's decades and decades of a culture that has not been built to serve the needs and interests of indigenous people.