Evidence of meeting #23 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Not a problem.
Ms. Idlout, would you be able to provide a short summary of the question? Mr. Lamont is having problems with his translation.
Chief Negotiator and Special Projects Lead, Tsay Keh Dene Nation
I apologize.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Yes, very quickly, I was struck by your comment about your nation having a lack of capacity. It's always a concern to me whenever I hear from the federal government when they're told that first nations, Métis or Inuit are lacking in capacity. I think it would be great for us to understand from you what your capacity development needs are so that we could make sure, in this report and for future studies, we gain a better understanding of what those capacity development needs are.
Chief Negotiator and Special Projects Lead, Tsay Keh Dene Nation
Yes, thank you.
Canada and B.C. have stated that they're committed to advancing reconciliation, that they are committed to implementing UNDRIP and to collaboratively recognizing and implementing aboriginal rights and title. The truth is that those promises are empty promises unless first nations can be empowered to assume greater control over their destiny with the right to self-determination, the right to self-government. Self-government without adequate capacity to be an open, transparent and efficient government is an empty right. For Tsay Keh, this is the constant challenge.
To focus specifically on the topics that we were discussing today, Tsay Keh has identified problems and challenges in the community. Whether it's the Finlay Forest Service Road or food security, wildfires or pandemic response, we understand the problem and we have developed solutions, but when we are struggling with solutions, we're constantly met with a lack of financial resources and a lack of human resources. We don't have the resources to invest in the human resources that are required to execute on many of the solutions that we've developed. Some of the solutions that we've developed, we've developed collaboratively with industry, or collaboratively with the province, or collaboratively with Canada.
Tsay Keh is currently negotiating an incremental treaty and reconciliation agreement that contains four main pillars, including specific commitments to enable Tsay Keh to develop a viable economy for the Tsay Keh Dene people. The ability to develop a viable economy for Tsay Keh Dene people means that Tsay Keh will have own-source revenue that it can use to help meet some of these needs.
We think we've been pretty nimble. We're doing everything that we can to build capacity, and for some of the topics that I've discussed today, whether it's wildfires or the Finlay Forest Service Road, funding from Canada that Tsay Keh can use to execute the solutions it has developed is critical. On the Finlay Forest Service Road, that forest service road has huge implications for economic development for the community, for public health and public safety and so on. The province is willing to commit substantial resources. If Canada is a willing partner in implementing the solution that Tsay Keh developed at the solutions table for the Finlay Forest Service Road, we believe that the project, combined with the other projects, has the potential to be transformative.
I did meet with people in Transport Canada, and I have met with other federal government officials. The challenge we have is that we're struggling to identify existing programs on which we can draw to help meet some of those needs. A concern for—
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you. You made it very clear.
I have another question for somebody else. I have a question for Debbie.
We don't have much time, Debbie. When you gave your report, it was very interesting. When it comes to indigenous people, we have our own bylaws or a code of conduct. Can you talk more about your traditional laws and code? Thank you.
Executive Director, Grand Council Treaty No. 3
Meegwetch.
Grand Council Treaty No. 3 does implement a four directional governance model. We do operate within traditional laws. One of our primary traditional laws is Manito Aki Inakonigaawin, our resource law, which is very important when we talk about emergency management with respect to floods and fires as well as when we talk about resource revenue sharing from an indigenous perspective.
Within our laws, we have protocols, so when we've had to do evacuations for emergencies, oftentimes our communities want to go west. We have a traditional protocol by which we contact, in Manitoba, the Southern Chiefs' Organization and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. Our grand chiefs talk to their counterparts in Manitoba and ensure that, when we're doing an evacuation that they know that we're coming into the Treaty No. 1 lands. Treaty No. 3 and Treaty No. 1 work together collectively, so that when our members are in hotels in Winnipeg, there is the continuity of the Anishinaabemowin language. Again, because those traditional protocols are in place, we have language and cultural continuity, and we have supports to ensure that everyone works well together.
Similarly with respect to our child welfare agencies when we're moving families, there are families that are in crisis, so our child welfare agencies also have a protocol in place by which they help one another. They support the families if they go west, but they could potentially also go east, so some of our communities are evacuated into Thunder Bay. Again, the child welfare agency in Thunder Bay, which is Dilico, works with our child welfare agencies, and in this case, for Grassy Narrows it would be Anishinaabe Abinoojii Family Services. Both of those agencies work collectively together to ensure the well-being of the families. With respect to children, our law is Abinoojii Inakonigewin, which is child well-being. When we talk about Abinoojii Inakonigewin, it's not children in care; it's all of our children, all of our families. Our law doesn't necessarily make those distinctions of a child in need of protection. It's the child, all of our children. We all have that responsibility to care for that child.
Similarly with MAI and our resource law, we have a responsibility to care for all of the 55,000 square miles of our territory.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you, Ms. Idlout.
Colleagues, we will now do a complete second round, and we'll start with the Conservatives. I'm going to guess it's Mr. Vidal.
Mr. Vidal, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all our witnesses today. The testimony has been very compelling, hearing about the challenges of escape roads, wildfires and the loss of homes and cabins, floods, food security, a biomass project and fuel management within the forest. The reason I list those things is that they're all things that I have personally experienced in my own riding in northern Saskatchewan, but I'm hearing about them from northern Ontario, northern B.C. and northern Quebec. The witnesses' testimony is really appreciated.
Ms. Lipscombe, I want to drill in a little further to some of your comments. You talked about evacuations around fires last year, water and floods this year, and some of the work that you've been doing. I looked on your website, and you talk about training 25 evacuation support specialists. I'm really curious about what role they play, and it might have been in some of your answer to my colleague's question just a minute ago, but I want to drill into that just a little bit. I want to understand the role they play, how you got to that place and how they help you in responding to disasters in your communities over such a vast territory that you serve.
Executive Director, Grand Council Treaty No. 3
Treaty No. 3 territories cover 55,000 square miles. A number of years ago, every year in the spring, Nishnawbe Aski Nation, which is our neighbour to the north of us, had flooding situations. Then we're followed by forest fires.
Every year there is usually a community that has to be evacuated. When COVID first hit, we were confronted by the fact that some of our municipalities didn't necessarily want to have a number of evacuees come into their urban area. We asked how we begin to look after ourselves. How do we begin to build the necessary capacity within community and within our regional organizations to address some of these situations?
There was a proposal that was developed with ISC region in Ontario. We began to talk about the need to develop emergency management capacity so that we could respond regionally on the ground. Grand Council Treaty No. 3 does have an emergency management coordinator. We have another emergency management coordinator in Sioux Lookout, and one as well in the Fort Frances area, situated at our tribal council.
When you begin to build that initial on-the-ground capacity, what happens is that you begin to identify how you do training. There have been a number of proposals that have gone forward to help build that capacity. We recently completed training in Thunder Bay. What you saw on our website was the completion of that training. We find that, when we have individuals situated, they have a go-to person to go to, so it begins to build that communication and that network. You begin to talk about language.
I didn't know anything about how much sand you need to fill the sandbags or the poly you need to put in place that goes along with the sandbags. Our emergency management coordinators begin to develop that language, and they begin to know how much sand is needed and how you begin to construct sandbagging to protect critical infrastructure such as water treatment plants. You begin to build those relationships around how you do prevention versus mitigation.
Some of our communities knew in advance that they were at risk of flooding through the Rainy River, Lake of the Woods and then into the Winnipeg River. There are seven dams on the Winnipeg River. Knowing in advance as you watch those waters rise and being able to be prepared meant that you had people, boots on the ground, saying that the water just rose two inches. We know that it could compromise our water treatment plant. How do we make sure that we have the sand and that we put the sandbags in place? That only happens when you have the emergency coordinators, and they have the prerequisite training. They're that early sounding board, the canary-in-the-well type of scenario, that knows we have a problem and that we need to act on it.
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you for that. I think there is some history in a report somewhere that I read that every dollar that's invested in preparedness and prevention saves four dollars in response and recovery, so I give kudos to you and your leadership on the work you're doing from a prevention and mitigation perspective.
With the little bit of time I have left, I want to flip back to Chief Lampreau for a minute.
Chief, I sensed your frustration with the lack of coordination between the federal government and the provincial government, and I want to make sure I'm not making assumptions. That was just a huge challenge. We need to work towards better coordination maybe between the different levels of government. Would that be a fair assumption I made from listening to your testimony?
Conservative
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
That's fine. I don't want to put you on the spot.
The other thing you talked about is ATRs.
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Time passes quickly.
Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being present here today.
My first question goes to Ms. Lipscombe.
The Canadian Arctic has unique needs and faces interconnected challenges relating to its environment, its climate as well as its infrastructure. Can you please explain how this uniqueness of the Arctic affects emergency preparedness? What should the federal government do differently with respect to these challenges?
Executive Director, Grand Council Treaty No. 3
Grand Council Treaty No. 3 is located in northwestern Ontario, so we border Ontario and Manitoba. We do, however, have two communities that are remote. They are based on islands, so I think that's one of our unique challenges, being able to know how things respond and being able to respond to how things freeze up and thaw. I think that's the best I can answer that particular question with respect to remoteness and understanding the cost of being able to do the delivery of sand.
When we were protecting our island community, we had to barge sand. Then we had to do a delivery of sand. It basically went from Ontario into Manitoba, into the States and back into the community. That's one of the challenges that Treaty No. 3 faces, that one of our communities is located on an island, Northwest Angle 33. The road and ability to get to that in the spring and the fall is a unique challenge.
Liberal
Liberal
Chief Negotiator and Special Projects Lead, Tsay Keh Dene Nation
I was on mute. I apologize. Could I hear the question again?
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
I was saying that the Canadian Arctic has unique needs, facing interconnecting challenges related to its environment, climate and infrastructure.
What can be done differently by the federal government? What is the uniqueness with respect to the emergency preparedness, and what should we do differently?
Chief Negotiator and Special Projects Lead, Tsay Keh Dene Nation
Again, I can't speak specifically about the Arctic.
Tsay Keh Dene is a community located in north central B.C. However, it is a very remote community. The remoteness of Tsay Keh Dene presents special challenges. I spoke briefly about the state of the road. The road is a vital transportation link. It's the only viable land-based evacuation route.
I think it's absolutely critical, in developing strategies to mitigate the impacts of climate change, to ensure that indigenous peoples are equipped with the resources they need to respond effectively to climate change and build resiliency. We can't overlook that, in developing these strategies, remoteness has implications for cost and for capacity.
Speaking specifically about Tsay Keh, it's a small indigenous community. The population is 250 people. A population-based approach to developing strategies or funding to implement strategies to mitigate the effects of climate change or build resiliency is not a viable approach, because we incur many of the costs that larger communities that are less remote will incur in developing resilience and developing capacity to respond effectively to climate change.
One thing that Canada can do better is to take into account the unique and special needs of remote communities in developing strategies to respond to climate change.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you.
Emergency preparedness encompasses several aspects, such as emergency response plans, mutual assistance agreements, resources, inventories and training, public awareness activities, etc.
In your view, what are some of these pointers that the Canadian government should be putting more focus on?