Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 4th, 2022

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

While you were gone, I raised a point of order. It didn't have to do with the fact that you were gone. I would have raised it anyways. I pointed out the fact that three people were given more time to speak. They were allowed to do so, and as a result, it took away time from other members, specifically me and Ms. Idlout, I believe. I asked to have that time back so we could question the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Very well. We will finish this round to satisfy everyone.

Go ahead, Mrs. Gill. You have two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Calla, I have a straightforward question about something you mentioned earlier, the philosophical barriers that keep some communities from participating.

Could you talk more about that?

We talked about the fact that you sit on the Trans Mountain board of directors. I would think that could be perceived as the First Nations Financial Management Board taking a political stand.

Do you think that might hinder the participation of other first nations?

[Harold Calla]

I believe that in the beginning, not many communities could see the economic opportunity where they could utilize the services of access to capital. That's first and foremost. Emerging Supreme Court of Canada decisions have empowered first nations to participate more generally in the economy. All of a sudden, there's now economic activity that first nations can see regarding their communities and how they can support their desire to provide for their own communities.

As people started to see success, they wanted to become involved in this initiative. That success came from people initially signing up, going out and getting some loans from the First Nations Finance Authority and beginning to use those loans to support their community's interests and plans.

I think communities didn't initially see that because they didn't have economic opportunities at their doorstep or they didn't know how to realize those opportunities that were at their doorstep. Building this capacity has opened the door for them to be able to do that.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Sorry to cut you off there, Mr. Calla, but the time goes by so quickly, and I'd like you to answer my second question.

Do you think your involvement in the Trans Mountain board of directors could be viewed as a political stand, thereby deterring some first nations from taking advantage of the First Nations Fiscal Management Act?

[Harold Calla]

All I can tell you is that it has not, up to this point, Madam. In fact, I'm encouraged that they're telling me they want somebody to be there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

That takes up the remainder of that time.

Ms. Idlout, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

I'll be asking my questions in English to Clarence Manny Jules with the First Nations Tax Commission.

I was interested in your paper, which talked about the systemic gaps and how it takes five times longer to make indigenous projects shovel-ready. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on why it takes longer for things to become shovel-ready and what is being done to address that.

[Clarence T. (Manny) Jules]

When we talk about projects on reserve taking four to six times longer, it's because there's a lack of resources on the part of the community. There's lack of capacity to deal with the issues, a lack of rules and regulations and a lack of a game plan in terms of what needs to be done. We're working together as institutions to try to break down those barriers, so that it's just as fast to do business on our lands as it is off.

Some of that means working with other institutions, like the first nations lands management board, on additions to reserve policy, on specific claims policy, and in the long term, on creating our own proper land titles system so that lands would be transferred to our title, not to the title of the federal government, or indeed to the provincial or territorial governments.

To break down the times in terms of investment, we need institutions and innovative ways to deal with it. That's ultimately the framework of the institutions that are before you today as witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have about 20 seconds, Ms. Idlout.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

Really quickly, what would need to be in place on the part of the federal or provincial and territorial governments to serve indigenous communities on pace with the rest of Canada?

[Clarence T. (Manny) Jules]

We need optional legislation. We're past the day...and this goes to the questions that have been asked of Harold.

One of the things about philosophy is that people need to be able to be educated and make educated decisions. That's what we propose. We want people to come in with their eyes open, utilizing the legislation and the institutions. There needs to be legislative time set aside. The legislative time is critically important. To do any piece of legislation can sometimes take up to seven years. We have to be able to cut down on that time to process it a lot faster.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Jules.

Mr. Schmale, you have five minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I'm happy to go, Chair, but I think the motion was just to finish with Madame Gill and the NDP.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Okay, I missed that. I was incommunicado at the time.

Thank you very much.

I want to extend a heartfelt thanks to the witnesses who were with us today to answer the committee's questions.

Thank you very much, Mr. Ernie Daniels, Steve Berna, Harold Calla and Clarence—if I may call you Manny; it seems to be your nickname—Jules.

Thank you very much for providing important testimony to this group as we begin our study on a very important topic, the barriers to economic development. We very much appreciate your presence today, and we look forward to sharing the report when it comes out, so thank you very much.

Members, I'd like to call an adjournment on this, so we that we can reconnect for the in camera portion of our meeting in a couple of minutes.

Is everyone okay with that? I don't see any hands raising.

Let's adjourn. Again, thank you very much.

Sorry, I heard somebody yelling at me.

[The Clerk]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Sorry, you need to suspend, and we'll take a short break to allow people to sign in to the in camera Zoom link.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Okay. I'm getting used to this new job.

I thought adjourning was the same, but I guess it isn't.

What are the words I need to use, Madame Clerk?

[The Clerk]

Just suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Very good.

I'm suspending this portion of today's committee meeting.

Thank you, and we'll rejoin in a couple of minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]