Evidence of meeting #39 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Seetal Sunga  Senior Counsel, Department of Justice
Andy Garrow  Director, Planning and Partnerships, Reconciliation Secretariat, Policy and Strategic Direction, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Vanessa Davies
Kate Ledgerwood  Director General, Reconciliation Secretariat, Policy and Strategic Direction, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Dr. Sunga.

Mr. Battiste, go ahead.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

With that in mind, I think I understand that wording, but I also understand that voting in favour of this would then mean that amendment LIB‑5 is not there, and LIB‑5 has an important place in this. I know that Mr. Weiler could probably speak to that.

For those reasons, we're going to oppose this, because we think amendment LIB‑5 has some strong wording around time frames that are important to this legislation, which maybe Mr. Weiler could speak to as well.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Go ahead, Mr. Weiler.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you. Just on the amendment that I'd like to make here, there are really two things that I think are important.

First of all, the amendment I want to move would ensure that within six months of the council's being incorporated, a protocol would be concluded such that the work would start. The second part of the amendment that I would like to move would strengthen the language to enhance the actual effect of this information-sharing protocol.

The original legislation reads, “develop a protocol respecting the disclosure by the Government of Canada to the Council of information that is relevant to the Council's purpose.” I don't think that is quite strong enough. What I propose here is “The protocol must allow for the fulfilment by the Council of its purpose.” This would ensure a much stronger information-sharing protocol, which would enable the council to operate effectively.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Mr. Weiler, for explaining what you will be proposing or may be proposing.

Getting back to CPC-10, is there further debate?

I see Madame Gill.

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair

I would like to ask Mr. Weiler a question regarding subclause (2) that his amendment would add to clause 16. The wording would read: “The protocol must allow for the fulfilment by the council of its purpose.” I would imagine that the body that will judge whether or not the protocol enables the council to fulfil its purpose is the council itself, correct?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Mr. Weiler, go ahead.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Yes, I think that's a great question.

If the protocol itself was insufficient.... This really guards against the risk that you could have the government propose or agree to only a very insufficient information-sharing protocol. This will ensure it is more robust, because in the absence of that, it won't allow the purpose to be fulfilled by this.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Does this answer your question, Ms. Gill?

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Actually, I didn't really get a response. There is a desire to strengthen the protocol, I understand that. However, I want to know who will judge whether it allows the council to fulfil its purpose. Is it the council itself? If it is not stated here, would it be possible to do so?

I know there are two different amendments seeking to make changes in the same place, but would it be possible to strengthen this one to say that it will be the council itself that will be able to judge whether the information available to it is sufficient for it to fulfil its purpose?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you.

Do you want to add any further clarification?

We are going to go, of course, to CPC-10. This was to inform people about what LIB-5 might contain.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Yes, we can return to it at that point.

I think there are always ways we can amend an amendment to make it even stronger. If you'd like to consider something along the lines of “the protocol must allow for the fulfillment by the council of its purpose in the opinion of the council”, things like that could very much be on the table.

Your point is very well taken.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Bear in mind, of course, that if CPC-10 is adopted, then it's a moot point.

Going back to CPC-10, Mr. Vidal, you had your hand up.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

May I suggest, if it's important, that we add subclause 16(2) about strengthened language around the protocol. That could be considered as a subamendment to my amendment, and we could have both.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Would anybody in the room wish to propose a subamendment?

Go ahead, Mr. Battiste.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Well, actually, after hearing about the importance of the minister working collaboratively, we are going to oppose CPC-10.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Okay.

Does anybody else want to propose a subamendment?

Not seeing any hands raised, we're going to go to a recorded vote on CPC-10.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

I declare CPC-10 not carried.

We'll now go to LIB-5.

Mr. Weiler, would you move LIB-5?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I gladly move LIB-5, which is under the reference number 12049620.

I feel like I'll be repeating myself if I go through it.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

It's your choice.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Maybe I'll just leave it at that, because we just did that.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Very good.

Is there a wish to debate?

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

I do not want to debate the amendment, but I would like to propose a subamendment, in the light of what my colleague said earlier.

It is very simple, I would add a clarification after the word "council". So it would be, “The protocol must enable the council, in the opinion of the council, to fulfil its purpose.”

I can send it to the committee in writing so that you can have it in English and French.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Yes, that must be done.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

I can write it up immediately. It will be very quick. In the meantime, people can debate it.