Evidence of meeting #4 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steven Morse  Chief Executive Officer, Métis Voyageur Development Fund Inc., Métis National Council
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Vanessa Davies
Chief Terry Teegee  Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations
Tabatha Bull  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business
Shannin Metatawabin  Chief Executive Officer, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

You're talking about shifting it from program funding to what you would call base funding. It's guaranteed base funding, so it isn't something you're applying for and applying for as new programs are coming; you're looking for that base funding to be solid over time rather than program funding.

4:10 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

Exactly. In terms of police services, once again, it's going from program funding to essential services funding. More importantly, in terms of economic development, more often than not, we're looking at different types of partnerships that would allow us to really create those spaces for.... This is investment into first nations communities as it relates economic development. Those ties to INAC and CIRNAC far too often are too stringent in terms of what you can do with some of the funds versus what is necessary to initiate a project or anything like that. The Indian Act itself is too paternalistic, let's keep it at that. If you need to break—

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

With programs, you apply with certain guidelines, and then you have the restrictions to follow up. When you go to base funding, like police, you get it out of the program and get it to base funding so it becomes permanent.

In the sense of economic development that you're directly involved in, the Alberta government signed a deal yesterday with an indigenous group to work on a project to do with carbon sequestration. You talked about partnerships. Is that the kind of thing that you're talking about needing to move to?

4:10 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

Yes, certainly, it's whatever is necessary for first nations to take over. That sounds like a good partnership, whether it's with the province or the federal government. We have some examples here in British Columbia, but I think overall, moving towards.... That sounds like a good initiative going to more green energy, perhaps, or an alternative energy and looking at carbon sequestration. We've been ground zero for these past eight months for climate change issues in British Columbia.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

The other thing you talked about was the sense that the involvement in economic decision-making that you're looking for is a barrier, that you believe you don't have input in decisions or co-operation with decisions about funding for economic development. I assume because of your title and role, you're very familiar with this piece.

4:10 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

Yes, federally and provincially, the general idea is using these previous formulas, if you will. For example, there's an allocation for distribution of funds for things like coming out of COVID, and they would allocate a certain amount. Because you are 2% of the population, we'll give you 2% of the funding. That doesn't work because, quite simply, we have 204 first nations communities here in British Columbia that require much more investment and funds to deal with the issues of COVID or even coming out of COVID. Those formulas don't work [Technical difficulty—Editor] that treatment and that look in terms of engaging with first nations needs to change.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

You have about 30 seconds, Mr. Shields.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What you're suggesting is that the projects are much more important in recognizing what you can bring is projects, rather than per capita funding?

4:10 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

Certainly, per capita is necessary in some of these matters, such as during COVID and the allocation similar to CERB for on-reserve funding.

Overall, in terms of investment, it depends on the investment in the first nations communities, especially in those regions—let's say northeast, if there is a project regarding oil and gas, or in the south regarding fisheries and the coastal areas. For first nations that are leading on some of these very diverse projects, it would require much more investment, not just from our first nations partners but also from the province and the federal government.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

We're going to have to wrap it up there.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Next is Mr. Powlowski. You have six minutes.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Chief Teegee, regarding British Columbia's modern treaties—the Nisga'a Treaty and the Tsawwassen final agreement—how important do you think they are in advancing the economic development of those first nations communities? Are they part of the answer across Canada to bring prosperity to other indigenous communities?

4:10 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

As stated in the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, treaties, agreements and other constructive arrangements—modern treaties, historical treaties, numbered treaties, the Douglas treaties out here, comprehensive reconciliation agreements and any number of agreements out here—are very important, because what you're committing to is an arrangement. It's an agreement that must be upheld by all parties.

In these modern treaties, far too often, and we've seen in the history of Canada how many treaties were broken.... Quite simply, modern treaties—there are a number of them here in British Columbia—need to be upheld. Those commitments made by provincial and federal governments need to be upheld and held to higher standards.

Those first nations that have modern treaties, like the Nisga'a Treaty, came into these agreements on the understanding that we were all going to work together. Even the municipal governments were going to come together and work with the first nations on how they were going to administer some of their lands and decisions that were being made.

Especially in terms of economic development, where there are many initiatives, like the Tsawwassen, you have a huge economic development initiative out there. The Nisga'a have their plans about the development of the fisheries. They also, I believe, have arrangements with LNG.

Those partnerships are quite important, because what they came into these agreements for is what I alluded to previously. They don't want to be held by program funding. They want self-determination and sovereignty in how they conduct their own affairs [Technical difficulty—Editor] their traditional territories.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Thank you.

Last week, Manny Jules from the First Nations Tax Commission spoke to us, and one of his suggestions for economic development was to give first nations and indigenous people more ability to tax.

Do you agree with that?

February 8th, 2022 / 4:15 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

In terms the sovereignty of those first nations—and his community, the Tk’emlups te Secwepemc—they have the ability to tax some of the businesses that they have, in particular gas stations and those types of businesses.

It's really important to understand and know that if it's in their self-determination, their sovereignty, to tax within their lands or perhaps their administration within their first nations community, it's their prerogative. It really comes down to the first nations' rightful place and the rights holders to administer what they deem necessary to be part of the economic fabric, if you will, of their respective territory.

In this case, we're talking about the municipality of Kamloops. The Tk’emlups te Secwepemc have the ability to tax. I've seen it in my receipts. That is something that I agree with in terms of how they assert their own ability and the decisions that they make.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

I guess I'll ask you the same question I asked him last week.

I'm from Thunder Bay—Rainy River. Fort William First Nation gets a fair amount of business from gas stations on the reserve. There must be five or six of them. Everyone in Thunder Bay goes over there to gas up. There are some economic advantages in not having taxes and having lower tax rates there.

Would you undermine the ability of some first nations communities to economically prosper by changing the tax rules?

4:15 p.m.

Regional Chief, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations

Regional Chief Terry Teegee

The work that we do at the AFN is to support and advocate for [Technical difficulty—Editor] self determination by arrangements made with the province or the federal government.

Really it comes from the [Technical difficulty—Editor]. We don't impede the way in which they move forward. It's up to them. It's their decisions, sovereignty and self-determination. I wouldn't impede in any way any first nations community's ability to make decisions that they see fit for their community, no.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Powlowski.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

I have a question to Mr. Morse from the Métis National Council.

It seems to me that there is some benefit from the current tax situations for first nations communities that the Métis community doesn't have. I know, from living in Norway House, that the Métis community is right beside the first nations community. Is that a big impediment or advantage that the indigenous community has that the Métis community doesn't have?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Very quickly, Mr. Morse.

4:20 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Métis Voyageur Development Fund Inc., Métis National Council

Steven Morse

Wherever you have a price differential, of course, there's a potential for economic leakage. I do generally agree with the point that the negotiation of self-government modern-day treaties, whether with the first nations or the Métis, is fundamentally good in providing certainty and allowing Métis and first nations to make those trade-offs and decisions that are best for their communities.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Mr. Morse.

It is Mr. Garon's turn now.

Mr. Garon, you have six minutes.

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Thank you very much.

Thank you for joining us today, Grand Chief Teegee. We are delighted to have you with us.

In our current study, we are really looking to put our fingers on the obstacles that could hinder or harm the economic and entrepreneurial development among First Nations. What comes to mind right away is the straitjacket imposed by the Indian Act, which really limits First Nations' autonomy. Could you be more specific about one of your previous answers and describe for us the main restrictions that the Indian Act places on your autonomy?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Which witness is that question for, Mr. Garon?