Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 49th meeting of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

We acknowledge that we meet today on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today's meeting will be held in a hybrid format.

For those participating virtually, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen, using the globe icon, of either floor, English or French audio. Please select your language now. If interpretation is lost during our meeting, please let us know and we'll try to fix it right away.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your mike will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

Please make sure your interventions are made through the chair.

When you are speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain the consolidated speaking order.

I have just one housekeeping matter before we start. The next study, as you all know, per the motion adopted on November 21, 2022, is a study of improving graduation rates and successful outcomes for indigenous students. It's also known as the education study. I would just remind you to please submit your witness lists, organized by priority and by party, to the clerk by noon on February 8. That is this Wednesday.

We will now begin our fourth meeting on our study of indigenous languages. This is pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on November 21.

On our first panel today, we welcome Ronald Ignace, the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages. He is with us in person.

Welcome, Commissioner. We will begin by providing you with five minutes for opening remarks, after which we will have a period of questions for you.

If you are ready, the floor is yours for the next five minutes.

[Ronald E. Ignace, Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages]

[Witness spoke in Secwepemctsin]

[English]

Thank you for honouring me here to speak to this esteemed committee and to talk about the work of the commission.

[Witness spoke in Secwepemctsin]

[English]

As well, I would like to honour the lands and people of Kitigan Zibi for us being here.

Good afternoon, and thank you for the invitation to speak to you today.

As you all know, on July 12, 2021, I took office as commissioner and chief executive officer of the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages. The three directors representing the interests of first nations, Inuit, and Métis took office at the same time as I did.

The directors and I serve as the governing board of the commission. We feel privileged, humbled and honoured to have been selected as the first commissioner and directors of the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages, but we are also aware of the enormous task before us in implementing the mandate with which we have been entrusted.

As chief executive officer, I am responsible for the control and management of the commission. Over the past 18 months, our primary focus has been on establishing the commission. There was no such entity or organization prior to the act, so we have been working to build the organization from the ground up. The complexity and significance of our mandate and responsibilities require us to take the appropriate time and steps needed to establish a solid foundation for this organization. We're also working on long-term planning and strategies; we have begun baseline research to better understand the status of indigenous languages in Canada and the funding in place to support language revitalization, strengthening and maintenance. We expect the commission to be fully operational and staffed by the summer.

The Indigenous Languages Act is clear that the commission is an independent entity. The independence is critical to the integrity and credibility of the commission. It is what ensures we can carry out our mandate freely, objectively and without undue influence.

By the end of July each year, the commission must report on a number of things, including the use and vitality of indigenous languages in Canada, the adequacy of federal funding provided by the federal government, and, of particular interest to this committee, the implementation of the Indigenous Languages Act.

The act also sets out the requirement for two statutory reviews. The first is a three-year preliminary review of the act and of its administration and operation, to be commenced by the Senate, the House of Commons, or by both houses of Parliament.

The second is a five-year review requiring the Minister of Canadian Heritage to initiate an in-depth review by October 1, 2025, and within every five years thereafter.

Again, this will include a review of the act and of its administration and operation. Although the act received royal assent in June 2019, the provisions of these reviews did not come into force until some time later, to allow time for the implementation of the act.

We understand that, much like the impacts on the establishment of the commission, the COVID pandemic has also impacted the act's implementation. Given that the timing of the first review will commence soon after October 1, 2023, there is a potential that the implementation of this act will be studied by four separate parliamentary entities within the year or so, including by this committee. We intend that at the time the statutory reviews are under way, beginning in late 2023, the commission will be in a better position to provide an assessment on the implementation of the act.

Kukwstsétsemc.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Commissioner.

We'll now proceed with the first round, each speaker having six minutes, starting with Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner, for being here today to be part of this important discussion and this important study.

I'll start, Commissioner, by going to the Indigenous Languages Act. We've heard a from quite a few witnesses so far, with some comments around the fact that the act maybe could have more teeth to it, so to speak. There's a belief that there are a lot of good intentions within the act, but not necessarily...some of the methods within it need to be taken to make it more substantive. To start off there, do you have any comments on that, or any suggestions on some potential amendments that might improve the act?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

On the implementation of the act, the commission is not to prescribe what the Indigenous Languages Act ought not to do. Our mandate is to support indigenous languages. Now, if indigenous peoples, in the consultation process between the federal government and indigenous peoples, recommend certain changes and amendments to the Indigenous Languages Act, we will support that and uphold that and continue on with our mandate to support and promote indigenous languages and to support the reclamation, revitalization, maintenance and strengthening of indigenous languages.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I can appreciate that. In that same spirit, I think, we heard from a witness, Dr. Megan Lukaniec. She said, and I'm quoting her words:

As of right now, for our nation, there has been no positive impact of the passing of the Indigenous Languages Act. No funding model has changed, this funding was and still is project-based. Furthermore, we have not been contacted by or in communication with the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages.

Commissioner, could you maybe provide some insight from your view on what work is being done to ensure there is more communication, as you mentioned, and perhaps on some issues or concerns that people have with the act and that you will work on within that mandate if there is a movement to see those changes come to fruition? What work is being done by your office to ensure there is greater contact with indigenous peoples at the grassroots level across the country?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

Let me preface my remarks by saying the Indigenous Languages Act and the commission have just been recently appointed—on July 12, 2022—and in our focus we're mindful that we're building a national entity with a very complex mandate, so we've been working very hard to establish the solid foundation, mindful of future generations, for the commission to be able to address its mandate. Our focus primarily has been on that building of the foundation of the commission.

Where and when we've been able to speak at events in person or via link, we have done so. We did presentations to chiefs, to regional organizations and to various entities, and our directors and I did presentations to all communities, but in a very short time. Canada, as you know, is a very big country, with a lot of communities across the country. We will continue to push on in doing that, because one of our mandates is the promotion of the Indigenous Languages Act.

We've met with various parliamentarians from all parties. As well, we were invited via video link to have a breakfast meeting with the deputy ministers. I understand that it's quite rare to be invited to their meeting. Via video link, we've met with and done presentations for 6,000 civil servants across the country to inform them. It's important for such people to know about the act. We've done meetings with indigenous people across the country, but our primary focus has been to build the commission. Without the commission, we won't be able to appropriately address our mandate. We are making every effort to push forward, and we'll continue to do so.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Absolutely, I appreciate that.

In the short time I have left, let me ask you this. I can appreciate that you haven't had a lot of time, necessarily, in the past, but going forward with that in mind, can you speak to any specific further measures you'll take in the spirit of consultation?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

Well, we will continue to strengthen the fundamentals of the commission, to build up our full-time staff to push forward with the legislated mandate of the commission and to push forward on conducting outreach to the communities.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Melillo.

We'll go to Mr. Battiste.

You have six minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

[Member spoke in Mi'kmaq]

[English]

Thank you for joining us, Ronald. Congratulations on being the first-ever indigenous languages commissioner. As a fluent Mi'kmaq speaker, I'm very proud to see an indigenous language commission in place. You once told me something very powerful at an AFN language conference, and it has always stuck with me. You said, “Our indigenous languages are the bolt cutters on the chains of colonialism.” That stuck with me; I always remember that quote, and I've always shared that quote.

As Mi'kmaq people, we're very lucky to be advanced in our stages of promoting indigenous languages—we have Mi'kmaq immersion schools, Mi'kmaq apps, Mi'kmaq resources and songs in the Mi'kmaq language, new and old—but there are two things I'm concerned about. First of all is that we've put too much of a burden on the educators to save our languages. We're putting so much of a burden on the teachers to save the language, and sometimes we don't have the incentives required to make sure our youth want to speak the language in our future, not just for the culture but also because it's going to do something for them later on in life.

Can you speak to what some of the things are that we need to do to create incentives for our indigenous youth to continue speaking their language? What lessons can we learn from maybe the francophone community in terms of what they're doing right, to make sure there are reasons to speak the language moving forward?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

That's a good question, and I think that's one of national concern for all our mothers and fathers across the country. I for one have that concern with my children. One of the problems we have with the lifestyle we live today is that we're all busy and we have jobs we have to go to. As well, there are historical, systemic racist policies and laws that have led to the delegitimizing, stigmatizing and shaming of our languages. We've talked here about how our peoples across the country need to heal from that, so it's an area to which we have to give serious consideration.

As well, we have to redevelop a sense of pride and understand the significance and importance of getting our languages back into our lives. I've heard—and I believe it was stated here in this commission—people talk about paying our students to go back to relearn their language, incentivizing them that way to relearn their language. There are also systemic problems regionally, though, that disincentivize our children from speaking the language, and we need to understand and look at those so we can help promote the positive aspects of our languages that will lead to a better understanding of why our languages are important.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I agree.

In my own personal experience, I have seen something amazing, which is children not wanting to speak the language, but the same children walking around the house singing songs in their language if they've heard them. I'm wondering if you could speak to me a bit about the power of indigenous songs and indigenous ceremonies and the role they play in promoting our languages moving forward.

[Ronald E. Ignace]

A song is an important component in our life, and it's really easy. When I'm teaching an indigenous language and I find the person having trouble pronouncing a word, I tell them to sing the word and they'll overcome the difficulty of their pronunciation. A song is an important ingredient that lifts up one's spirit and develops a sense of pride in our children. I think that's what we have to rebuild, and sometimes it may take song to get us back into speaking our language.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

We will be hearing from the Minister of Heritage in the next hour, but I'm wondering if you could just summarize what you think are the biggest things we need to do to promote and revitalize the language in Canada—in 50 seconds.

[Ronald E. Ignace]

Realistically, we're at a pivotal point in this country, and I'm really proud and honoured to see that Canada has listened to our calls for an Indigenous Languages Act, and that it has been given royal assent by all parties.

That's a good start. It legitimizes us in the eyes of Canada. I think we have to build on that and move forward with that.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you. Wela'lin.

[Ronald E. Ignace]

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Battiste.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you Commissioner, for appearing before us today.

We are, of course, speaking with the commissioner and we know that establishing the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages is a requirement of the Indigenous Languages Act, but we are interested in more concrete aspects of the act as a whole. Even though it could be improved and there will be a three-year review, to begin next year, people are interested in its implementation.

I would therefore like to ask you for more specific details about what has been done so far. You said that there was a lot of work remaining, and I agree, but I'd like to have a better idea about what, concretely, is being done. For example, you mentioned that the office would be fully up and running by the summer. The directors were appointed in 2022, and you were appointed in 2021. That means that work on setting up the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages has been under way for a year and a half, or almost two years.

There are several aspects to the office's mandate. On page 10 of the Indigenous Languages Act it is stated that the office's role is to promote indigenous languages, support the efforts of indigenous peoples to reclaim, revitalize, maintain and strengthen indigenous languages, facilitate the resolution of disputes, promote public awareness, and support research projects in cooperation with indigenous governments, not to mention funding.

In five minutes, I'd like a brief rundown of the activities planned to address each of these points. If there are none, that's not a problem, but I'd like to have some idea of what the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages is doing concretely, and which could be mentioned in a report.

I can briefly repeat each of these points. For example, with respect to helping to promote indigenous languages, what, concretely, has the office done thus far?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

As you know, our primary focus has been on establishing and building the fundamentals of the commission. We've established and implemented an operational plan for the building of the commission, including governance structures, policy and procedures. Important financial, administrative and human resource systems have also been established.

Additionally, the—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I apologize for interrupting you, Commissioner, but I have only six minutes.

Am I to understand that you haven't been able to address those aspects of the mandate set out in subsection 23(1) of the Indigenous Languages Act owing to a shortage of time and resources?

Is that right?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

I'm sorry. I didn't get the question.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

No problem. I'll repeat my question, Commissioner.

My understanding—and tell me if I'm wrong, Commissioner—apart from setting up the office itself, human resources and so on, there has not been any work on those aspects of its mandate that I mentioned, owing to a lack of time or funding.

I'm just suggesting possible reasons, but you can give me the details.