Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[Ronald E. Ignace]

We've been engaging in research to frame the costing study for the revitalization of indigenous languages. Likewise, there's a baseline study to clear a picture on the status and the vitality of indigenous languages, which will assist in giving us a better perspective on how we can support the promotion and revitalization of indigenous languages, so our primary focus has been—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

So it's been research, for the time being.

[Ronald E. Ignace]

—on establishing the foundation of the commission.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Commissioner, with respect, does that mean the government did not have any solid data that would have enabled you to get on with your work?

You're giving an overview of the situation. That means the government, and more specifically the department, does not have the data required for you to be able to do your work properly.

Is that right?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

You have to understand that the commission is independent from the government, so we are.... Our mandate right now is to establish the fundamentals of the foundation, and we will be moving forward to address—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I'll be the devil's advocate here.

Let's take the residential schools issue, for example. I would imagine that if information were available, action would be taken quickly.

And for indigenous languages, people want to get things moving. We're talking about revitalizing some languages, but there are also some dormant languages and others that are going to disappear.

Even though the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages is independent from the government, shouldn't it have access to scientific, factual data and to something substantial, so to speak? That would enable it to do its work properly and rapidly.

The government hasn't given you any information. Have you requested any information that would help get things done faster, with no risk of duplication?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

I don't quite understand your question. I will look into it and get back to you on that.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'll send him the question in writing. That would provide the committee with a written answer. And, of course, it would be useful to the whole committee.

[Ronald E. Ignace]

Yes. I apologize.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

There's no need to apologize, Commissioner. That's why we're here.

Mr. Chair, I think I have 10 seconds of speaking time left.

Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Yes, just about.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Approximately $50 million was allocated to the commissioner's office for 2020‑2023, but only $4 million has been spent.

Is that related to what you said earlier? Could the funds have been used in a way that would have enabled the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages to get on with the work more quickly?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

The commission is unaware of any explicit analysis that has concluded and pinpointed numbers. The commission's credibility lies in fact and analysis.

In any event, the number is only one part of the issue. How funds are provided, the flexibility around the funds for their recipients and the terms of those funds, as opposed to being project-based or proposal-driven, are important. Flexibility around the funds for recipients and the terms of those funds are equally important considerations, but also, there are regional structural issues that need to be addressed, and we need to understand those. I hope that through our—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Commissioner, I was speaking about the amount allocated to you.

I wanted to know whether you could have spent the funds more quickly to move farther forward with the work. Nevertheless, I would imagine that your office has many challenges to deal with.

Thank you, Commissioner.

[Ronald E. Ignace]

Well, one thing I need to clarify is that we as a commission are not a funding agency. We don't do funding. We are there to promote and support indigenous languages and—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

However, a budget was allocated to the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Idlout, go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:] Thank you.

First of all, I'd like to welcome you. I'm happy to see you. You and I have met each other quite a few times now.

My questions will be from my understanding, because I'm getting into language history and commission work now. I'm getting orientated. It's a new organization that's just getting started and implemented. My questions will therefore address your future plans.

For instance, when it comes to indigenous people and the languages, and the indigenous peoples' languages act, they say that it's missing components. They do not have protection rights of their indigenous languages. We have no protection rights.

Have you considered protection rights for indigenous languages in Canada? Have you considered whether indigenous people and their languages can be supported more now than they were before? Because we do not want to lose our languages....

[Ronald E. Ignace]

You're talking about having our indigenous languages supported. My understanding, if I look at the Constitution, is that the rights that are recognized and affirmed in the Constitution are undefined rights, unlike the indigenous languages legislation, which recognizes, names and defines our indigenous languages rights and enacts them into law.

As far as I understand—and I appreciate that the Indigenous Languages Act is now the law of the land to protect indigenous rights—now it's how we go about implementing those rights going forward that will determine what or where there might be changes to the legislation.

My position is that we should not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, UNDRIP, states that indigenous people have the rights, and Canada has supported UNDRIP. Article 14 states that indigenous people's languages shall be taught in the school system if the people wish them to be taught.

When you look at article 14 of UNDRIP, have you looked at how policies and programs might address that in Canada?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

As I stated, we are building up and we will be looking forward at those issues with respect to how they impact the work of the commission. We'll be using those as guiding principles for how we conduct our work in the promotion of indigenous languages and the supporting of indigenous peoples going forward.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I don't have much time left, but I have one question.

I support the work you do, and the commission is very important. I support you. Could you tell us about the problems and challenges you may have encountered in the beginning? How can we be more supportive to make sure your work is a success? How can we further support you to make sure your work goes smoothly, and what would you recommend we do to help it go smoothly?

[Ronald E. Ignace]

What work could you do to help us?

Listening to the presentations to this committee, I have found them very important to informing us about what the people on the ground are thinking, and we will be looking to the government and its process and procedures going forward with respect to implementing the act.

Because our focus has been primarily on establishing the commission, we're only halfway through that work, so it would be premature for us to comment on that, but we have a legislative mandate to report on the efficacy of the implementation of the act by, I believe, the end of 2023. We'll be moving in that direction to be able to present those types of ideas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

We have time for a shortened second round, beginning with Mr. Zimmer for five minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for being here, Commissioner.

You started off by saying that independence is critical to the work you're doing, but I'll just read this out, on clause 12. It says, “Clauses 13 and 16 stipulate that the commissioner and directors are appointed by the Governor in Council on the recommendation of the minister”.

That leads me to believe that there's a bit of guidance—maybe unnecessary or unwanted guidance—to your independence and the work you do.

Can you speak to that? Has it been a problem in the past?