Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

You're saying there are 20-some amendments the Senate put forward and you are rejecting all of them.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No, I never said that.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Are you saying the article is wrong?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No, no. There will be a lot of amendments approved, I guess. We don't know which ones yet, but some will be approved. However, if an amendment has a negative impact on the bill or goes against the intention of the bill, we cannot accept it. Also, the intention of the House...two-thirds of the House voted in favour of that version of the bill that went to the Senate.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I thought we were talking about indigenous languages here. We've kind of gone off course and have gone on to a different bill. I know the heritage committee is looking at this bill and it's in the Senate, and I'm wondering what its relevance to indigenous languages is.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I'm sure, as it's my time, I can ask whatever questions I want, but also it is about indigenous languages, when we have APTN saying that their voices are not going to be heard and are going to be affected by this. That's the relevance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Mr. Schmale is right. There is a wide latitude in the questions that are asked, and there is an indirect link to indigenous languages with respect to Bill C-11, so I'll allow it, although there's only about 15 seconds left.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Back to APTN, they are concerned that their voices and their product are not going to get out to the ears and eyes of people who want to watch and listen to it. What guarantees can you give this committee that this will not be the case?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It's the intention and objective of the bill to give more room for indigenous voices, so we'll make sure they are more discoverable and we'll make sure they are better financed. However, we have to move on. The Bloc support it. The NDP support it. The Liberals support it. You guys filibuster it. Now it's time to move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Schmale.

We'll now go to Mr. Weiler for five minutes.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank our minister for joining the committee today on the really important study we're doing right now.

A couple of questions came up today related to some of the indigenous languages that are most at risk, because we know indigenous languages across the country very much have different statuses. Throughout this study, we've heard about the urgency of acting right now, because many of these communities have few remaining language speakers. They're doing the best they can to capture this knowledge but, in many cases, it's a race against time.

Minister, I was hoping you could speak to how the government is working with those communities—I have one in my riding as well—where the future of the language is very much threatened right now. How are we able to address the pace of implementation, so that we are able not only to save the languages, but to strengthen and revitalize them for future generations as well?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Of course, I said at the beginning that such an important bill cannot be realized overnight. However, the fact there was so much work done in the process and the fact there was so much discussion and collaboration....

I remember meeting with my friends—the Métis, the Inuit and the first nations—here and in other cities. I went to Iqaluit. We had meetings in New York while we were there at the United Nations. Again, we didn't always agree on everything, which is normal, but we agreed that we had to put in a robust bill and we had to be able to start very quickly.

The second the bill was adopted—again, it received royal assent in June and was put in place in August—we started increasing the level of funding. More importantly, though, we put in place structures such that we would work with our indigenous counterparts and colleagues, because we didn't want PCH to be there saying, “Okay, send us projects. We'll be the ones analyzing them and you guys will have nothing to do”. It's quite the opposite.

We have different groups that work with us and will vet the projects. They're groups that know their own reality and know the people who presented the project. Through that, I think we're in a good spot. We can always do better, but I think we're in a good spot, where we can keep increasing the funding of the projects. I said it's been about $840 million since the implementation of the act, with $118 million ongoing. There are community projects and on-the-ground projects that make a difference in the daily lives of people and the objectives we all have.

I don't see how this bill could be politicized or partisan. It is about—this is very important—revitalizing, permeating and promoting indigenous languages.

As I said before...I gave my example of how important it was for my father and my family to keep our Spanish. I'm so proud to have kept my Spanish. I can talk to my daughter in Spanish. I can go back to Argentina and speak to my mother, who's there, my uncles and others in my language.

That is equally important for all of us. I'll always be there to defend it, and not only because it's the right thing to do. For me, it's so personal that we do the right thing.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

As a follow-up to that, it seems there are a number of different things we need to do. We need to make sure that with the languages that are there, we're able to help and encourage uptake. There is an urgency in that we're seeing languages at risk of being lost forever. Some parts of the language in many parts of the country are already lost.

I wonder if you could speak a bit more to that particular aspect of making sure that we are recording and saving those languages, so that down the road we're able to do the important work of revitalizing them.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Absolutely.

There is recording, there is the writing of stories and there is the drafting of books and dictionaries. It's everything we can...but it's all based on the needs identified by their communities. It's never by us.

Who am I to say this is what this community needs or what the Inuit people need? No. Whatever we do, we will do it in collaboration.

Sometimes it takes a bit more time, but it's the right way to do it.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

How does the Department of Canadian Heritage contribute to the revitalization of indigenous languages among the younger generations and how does it attract indigenous youth to their language, heritage and culture?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That's an excellent question.

It mostly comes through young people themselves. I sensed that they were very enthusiastic about learning the language and being able to say that they can speak with their grandparents in the language of their ancestors.

They have to be provided with the essential tools, like software that enables them to directly translate tweets into one or other of the indigenous languages, as well as immersion activities for younger children, which are more appropriate for them than just pedagogical materials.

Access is needed to equipment to record songs or shoot videos in indigenous languages. Those are the kinds of things that will attract youth. There is a lot of talent, and some will become the major producers and musicians of tomorrow. In fact, we have one in the room with us today.

Those are some of the things we can do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Weiler.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you mentioned, Minister, collaboration is clearly important.

Needless to say, I know that the Office of the Commissioner of Indigenous Languages is independent. The commissioner told us that he was currently carrying out several studies on indigenous languages to obtain an overview of the current situation. You mentioned that there were more than 70.

Has the department also looked into it? Does it have a handle on this?

Has there been collaboration to avoid duplication of existing data? Have there been discussions on this between the commissioner's office and the department?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you for the question.

I don't think our research is as exhaustive as what the commissioner's office is doing, because that's its role and it's part of its mandate.

I recall that work on the bill began in 2016. When I became the Minister of Canadian Heritage, work had been progressing for some time, and I continued with it.

In the course of our discussions, tours and meetings, we obtained information about the status of the situation. However, the research was done more instinctively than quantitatively. I'm not sure that everyone had much information at the time. That's also when we became aware of the fact that for some indigenous languages, there were perhaps only three living speakers, and they were over 85 years old. We asked ourselves what ought to be done in situations like that.

We were compiling this information somewhat instinctively, but not scientifically. It will be up to the commissioner's office to do this work exhaustively.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I would imagine that without data it's hard to know what the real needs are on the ground and in the communities. If it's impossible to have an exact idea of what's happening, it must be difficult to evaluate requests from the field.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That's why we work with the communities, Mrs. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I'm aware of that. I also mentioned the collaboration required and the possibility of disseminating the data, because there may well be statistics that the department could produce on this. Even though that's the role of the commissioner's office, it's not up to them to do all the work. Their mandate covers only a portion of the bill. All of the purposes set out in section 5 indicate that some of the responsibility also rests with the Department of Canadian Heritage.

In terms of the appointment of the commissioner and directors, can you tell us which communities and organizations you consulted, since that aspect is also mentioned in the act? Did they comment on the department's recommendations?

Could you send this information to the committee?

Thank you.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I just wanted to briefly point out that when we make decisions—and you are correct in saying that we don't have all the information—we work with our Inuit, Métis and first nations partners throughout the project approval process. We do not unilaterally approve projects submitted to the department. We work with representative groups.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

It would be centralized, then.

I'd like to clarify that. For example, it would involve the Ralliement national des Métis, Inuit Tapiriit...

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

There are many groups, but I don't know exactly how many. There is one per group.

What was your second question?