Evidence of meeting #57 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was success.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
Ms. Smith, I'd like to hear more about the barriers to education that women and young women face.
Mr. Aldag brought up the geographical barriers in terms of where indigenous women and girls have to take their schooling, whether they live in a rural community, on reserve or off reserve. It's important to talk about that aspect, so we can accurately identify what the federal government needs to focus on, in order to ensure that women and men have equitable access to education.
Interim Adviser to the President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Thank you. That's an excellent question.
Anyone who knows me is probably tired of hearing me talking about this, but I can follow up with the committee on something that I'm really proud of that NWAC did: the culturally relevant gender-based analysis.
I bring that up because in there.... It's really for policy-makers like yourselves to ask hard questions and to ensure that any sort of policy, study or strategy takes into account colonization and takes a trauma-informed approach.
Let's just make up a person who's transgender, disabled and living on reserve. Let's make sure that any sorts of educational efforts and any sorts of efforts when it comes to policy and legislation take into account that person so that this person is not left behind.
You know, truth and reconciliation is hard work. It's all of our work, and we have to ask ourselves....
I was formally trained in law school. Although I'm an Inuk woman, I was separated from my culture due to colonialism and I struggle every day to decolonize my thoughts and not take things for granted. That's what we all do.
Madame Gill, I really appreciate your question. I think it's a good question: Where should our efforts go?
It's oversimplifying it to say that we need to have a decolonizing shift, because what does that mean?
We need people to understand that it's not just formal education and the curricula that we have to focus on; it's those wraparound services that are needed as well for indigenous women and girls and gender-diverse and transgender people.
Maybe there need to be more services in language revitalization. When an indigenous girl feels proud of who she is, it's proven that she will attain better educational outcomes.
What I like about....
I'm sorry that I'm jumping all over the place. I'm really excited to have this discussion.
“Their Voices Will Guide Us” is a resource that I keep referring to. What I love about it is that at the heart of it, it is teaching children—non-indigenous children as well—how valued indigenous women are. When children have love in their hearts and minds for indigenous women and girls, they're less prone to violence and other things that may take them off the course of achieving better educational rates. Part of that is also incorporating indigenous women and girls into the education. Maybe they want to hear from knowledge keepers. Maybe they want to connect with the land in traditional ways of learning. Maybe they want to learn from midwives and healers. Maybe they need positive role models to talk about resiliency, because we're still here.
I know I've given you a lot information and I don't know if I answered the question directly, but thank you for that question.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Ms. Smith. Indeed, there's a lot more to say on the subject. I'm glad that you jumped around and mentioned so many things in your answer. It gives us more food for thought for our study.
Ms. Restoule and Mr. Furdyk, Ms. Smith talked about decolonization, without focusing solely on women. Can you comment on that? I think it's another key consideration in this whole discussion. What role does decolonization play from your standpoint?
Advisory Board Member, Connected North
Mike, are you good with my taking this one?
Advisory Board Member, Connected North
Thank you, Mrs. Gill.
When I think of decolonizing, I really think of revitalization. It's less about deconstructing and more about constructing and revitalizing the ways of learning through experience that are very much aligned with indigenous ways of doing, in terms of learning and development.
On your question on and around the comparison between on reserve to off reserve, I think that generally, if you expose children to an environment in which they can learn about the world around them, where the land is the land and the water is the water, it gives them an opportunity to learn in a way that is familiar to them, in a way that is aligned with them culturally and ideologically.
With Connected North, we bring in technology to leverage that experiential learning. Sure, we're not doing it specifically on land and water—well, in some cases we are, actually—but we're not doing it specifically within that context. We're in classrooms, but we're actually connecting people with teachers—indigenous teachers, in some cases—who are transferring knowledge in a way that is familiar to the children we're reaching out to. It really goes back to revitalizing the principles of learning and development that are very much aligned with an indigenous world view.
In a nutshell, it's again not about decolonizing but about bringing in what we know works, what's been axed out by the Indian Act, and more importantly what puts these kids back on the path to knowing who they are and where they come from.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin
Thank you, Mrs. Gill.
We'll now proceed to Ms. Idlout for six minutes.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]
ᐋ, ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ ᐃᒃᓯᕙᐅᑕᓖᒃ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ ᓖᓴ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᖃᕆᑕᐅᔭᒃᑯᑎᒍᑦ ᐃᓚᐅᔪᑦ ᐋ ᓈᓚᒃᓱᑦᓯ ᑕᒪᑦᓯ ᐋ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᕋᑦᓯ ᐱᒻᒪᕆᐊᓗᓐᓂᒃ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖃᕋᒃᓯ ᐋᒻ ᓯᕗᓪᓕᕐᒥᖅᑲᐃ ᓖᓴᒧᑦ ᐊᐱᕆᓂᐊᖅᐳᖓ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᕆᔭᑎᑦ ᐋᒻ ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᕐᒪᑕ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕐᕖᑦ ᐃᓕᖅᑯᓯᑦᑎᓐᓂᒃ ᐱᖅᑯᓯᑦᑎᓐᓂᒃ ᐱᑕᖃᖅᔫᒥᔭᕆᐊᖃᕐᒪᑦ ᐋᒻ ᐅᑯᐊ ᐃᓚᖏᑦ ᑲᑎᒪᔨᐅᖃᑎᒃᑲ ᐊᐅᓪᓚᖃᑎᒋᓵᓚᐅᕋᒃᑭ ᓲᕐᓗ ᐋ ᐃᖃᓘᑦ− ᑑᑦᓯᐊᒧᓪᓗ ᖁᒡᓗᒃᑑᒧᓪᓗ ᐋ ᖁᒡᓗᒃᑑᕐᒦᒃᓱᑕ ᐋ ᐅᓇᓕᒃ ᐅᓇᓕᒃᓴᔭᕐᓂᒃ ᑲᑎᒪᖃᑎᖃᓚᐅᕋᑦᑕ ᑕᐃᒃᑯᐊ ᐅᓇᓕᒃᓴᔭᐃᑦ ᐋ ᐊᒃᑯᐊᓗᒃᑕᐅ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᓚᐅᕐᒥᒻᒪᑕ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᖅᑎᑕᐅᕚᓐᓂᖅᓱᑕ ᐋ ᖃᓄᖅ ᐱᓕᕆᓲᖑᒻ− ᒪᖔᑦᑕ ᐋ ᓇᓕᐊᖑᓚᐅᖅᑐᒃᑭᐊ ᐊᐱᕆᓚᐅᕐᒪᑦ ᐋᒻ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐅᓇᓕᒃᓴᔭᐃᑦ ᐋᒻ ᖃᐅᔨᒪᔪᒻᒪᕆᐊᓘᒻᒪᑕ ᓄᓇᒋᔭᑦᑎᓐᓂᒃ ᓯᓚᑎᒋᔭᑦᑎᓐᓂᒃ ᐊᒻ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᑐᒻᒪᕆᐅᕙᒃᓱᑎᒡᓗ ᐋ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐅᑭᐅᖅᑕᖅᑐᖅ ᐋ ᓇᒻᒥᓂᕆ− ᔭᐅᓂᐊᕐᓂᕋᖅᑎᒡᓗᒍ ᑲᓇᑕᒧᑦ ᐋ ᐃᒪᓐᓇᖃᐃ ᐊᐱᕆᕗᖓ ᑖᓐᓇ ᑏᑳᓚᓇᐃᔨᖕᒥᒃ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖃᖅᑎᒡᓗᑎᑦ ᓲᕐᓗᖃᐃ ᐃᓕᓴᐃᔩᑦ ᓄᓇᓕᖕᒦᓐᖔᕆᐊᖃᖅᐸᑕᖃᐃ ᒫᓐᓇᐅᔪᖅ ᐋ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᐃᓕᓴᐃᔨᖏᑦ ᖃᓪᓗᓈᓃᓐᖔᓲᖑᒻᒪᑕ ᑭᓯᐊᓂ ᐋ ᓲᕐᓗ ᓄᓇᒋᔭᒃᑎᓐᓂ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᐋ ᐱᑕᖃᐅᖅᑎᒡᓗᒋᑦ ᓲᕐᓗ ᐋ ᐅᓇᓕᒃᓴᔭᐃᑦ ᑖᒃᑯᐊᖃᐃ ᐃᓚᒋᔭᐅᑎᑕᔾᔫᒥᒃᐸᑕ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕐᕕᓐᓂ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᐹᓪᓕᖃᑕᐅᒐᔭᖅᐸ− ᖃᐃ, ᐃᓕᓐᓄᑦ ᑕᐃᒪᓐᓇ ᐊᐱᕆᖅᑳᖅᑐᖓ.
[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Lisa and the other panellists who are here by Zoom. I am hearing what you said and I am liking what I'm hearing, because it is very important.
My first question is for Lisa.
What you said was like music to my ears. You're saying that we need more culturally based programs in our schools.
I was on a trip recently with some of my colleagues to Cambridge Bay and Kugluktuk. We met with Canadian Rangers who came to speak to us. We heard from them. What they said had a lot of significance. They were stating what is lacking. These Rangers, because they're indigenous, know the environment. They survive in the environment. They help keep our borders secure in Canada.
When you're talking about cultural learning, I wonder if we need more indigenous leaders. A lot of the teachers we have in Nunavut come up from the south. There are some qualified teachers in Nunavut and indigenous communities. I wonder if Rangers can be taken into consideration and utilized as teachers.
Thank you.
[English]
Interim Adviser to the President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Thank you for that.
What you're saying is music to my ears too, because I honestly hadn't really thought about using Rangers and other wildlife knowledge keepers as teachers. That's because, as I said before, I'm always trying to decolonize my own thoughts. Yes, I think that would be.... We need that shift to happen now so that knowledge is passed on. That's the thing.
What is the measure of success for education? A lot of people don't realize, especially for northern people, that it is survival on the land. When indigenous children learn that, how empowering it is. That's success. We need to shift and use those resources available to us to pass on those teachings. I absolutely agree with that.
I see that some shift is happening in legislation that I think is helpful. For example, there's the Accessible Canada Act on disability. It used to be that a harm had to happen to a disabled person before something was done, but now, with the Accessible Canada Act—it's also called the barrier-free Canada act—it's proactive, and we're perceiving harms and trying to get ahead of it so that the harm doesn't have to happen first. I use this as an example with you policy-makers so that these shifts can happen, and shifting what that measure of success looks like for indigenous children needs to happen now.
I thank you not only for that question, but for everything you've said and suggested. I'll give that a lot of thought.
Thank you.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]
ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ ᑭᐅᑦᓯᐊᕋᕕᑦ ᐋ ᑖᒃᑯᓄᖓᒃᑕᐅᖅ ᐋ ᑲᓂᒃᑎᑦ ᓄᐊᑦᔅᑯᓐᓄᑦ ᐊᐱᕆᖃᑕᐅᔪᒪᒻᒥᒐᒪ ᐋ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᖁᔭᓕᒍᒪᓪᓗᓯᒃ ᐱᓕᕆᑦᑎᐊᖅᑑᔮᖃᑦᑕᕋᑦᓯ ᐋ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᖅᑐᓂᒃ ᐋ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᑐᐃᒃᐊᖅᓱᓯᒡᓗ ᐋ ᖃᓄᖅ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᑕᒃᑲᓐᓂᕆ− ᐊᖃᖅᐱᓯ ᐋ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐋ ᐱᓕᕆᐊᕆᔭᓯ ᐋ ᐊᑐᕐᓂᖃᒃᑲᓐᓂᖅᐹᓪᓕᖁᓪᓗᒍ ᐋ ᐊᔭᐅᖅᑐᕈᑎᕙᒃᓯ ᐋ ᐱᐅᔪᐊᓗᒻᒥᒃ ᑲᔪᓯᑎᒃᓯᓲᖑᒐᒃᓯ ᖃᓄᒡᓕ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᑕᐅᒃᑲᓐᓂᕆᐊᖃᖅᐱᓯ ᐋ ᖃᓄᖅ ᐋ ᓈᓚᒋᐊᖃᖅᐱᑕ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᑖᓐᓇ ᑳᓂᒃᑎᑦ ᓄᐊᔅᑦ ᐊᒥᓲᔫᒥᔪᓄᑦ ᐊᑐᖅᑕᐅᒃᑲᓐᓂᖁᒡᓗᒍ.
[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]
Thank you for your response.
Now I want to ask Connected North a question. I also want to thank you. You seem to be doing a really good job in helping students get their education.
What would you like to see more of? Do you need more funding?
What else do you need to implement programs that would help students succeed while they're in learning centres and have successful futures?
Thank you.
[English]
Director of Innovation, Connected North
Thank you for the question.
One thing I'll add is that there is some really strong data that shows that 95% of students who take school trips have higher graduation rates from high school, and 59% have better grades. I think that speaks to the importance of both the land-based learning that you've heard a lot about from other guests and panellists and of the virtual experiences, such as Connected North.
To respond to your question, I would say that what we need is more sustainable, longer-term funding, particularly around digital learning supports for students and schools. There have been some programs here and there, but often—and you heard this from other panellists in earlier sessions—it can be one-year funding at a time, and it's difficult. By the time you get the program up and running, you're preparing to report and close it down.
What we really need is multi-year support, and we need recognition of the value of digital learning and not just physical places, in terms of students in remote communities. As we know, virtual learning offers huge opportunities and provides experiences they wouldn't otherwise be able to access in person. We'd love to see some more programs and support for that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin
There isn't time, but we are going to go to a condensed second round, so perhaps you can add to this during that time.
Conservative
Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you to everyone for this great discussion so far. I think it's been very helpful for our committee as we undertake this important study.
One thing that was mentioned during the course of the meeting was Internet connectivity. Of course, a recent Auditor General report that came out highlighted that the government is currently off pace to meet its 2030 goal of bringing affordable and high-quality, high-speed Internet to all Canadians. As of 2021, about 43% of first nation communities across Canada have access to affordable high-speed Internet, and that number is only 33% in Ontario.
I represent northwestern Ontario. My riding spans from the Minnesota border to Hudson Bay. In the 42 first nations in the municipalities that I represent, we know those Internet challenges far too well.
To the representatives for Connected North, I'd like to ask if you can help contextualize that issue for us. The lack of Internet, obviously, is something that would greatly impact you and your ability to carry out your role.
I'm wondering if you can help illustrate how big a challenge that is and how important it is that the government take steps to bring high-speed Internet to every community as quickly as possible.
Director of Innovation, Connected North
Thank you very much.
It definitely is something that is top of mind for many of our school partners and even our presenters. For several of the indigenous role models and experts who deliver programming through Connected North, we've had to fundraise as a charity to fund satellite connectivity for them because they didn't have good enough access and they weren't able to deliver to their own community. We've definitely seen that first-hand, and we've heard that from students as well, especially in Nunavut in particular, where it's satellite only and extremely, extremely expensive.
Although there have been big announcements and a lot of funding announced, we have still heard many stories of that connectivity not yet reaching many of the communities from many of the individual students and the presenters. It still poses a huge and urgent challenge, given how essential it is for both learning and innovation, to access that technology to be able to innovate and create, whether it's the next Shopify, an amazing cultural production or a virtual reality experience.
Karen and I co-founded a website called Whose Land, which helps people learn about first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. It has over two million pageviews and helps communities produce content about themselves. They're not able to do that because of that lack of connectivity.
Karen, I know you have something else to add to that, but it's definitely an urgent challenge that we hear about every day from our partner communities.
Advisory Board Member, Connected North
There is one nuance I'd like to add in terms of what constitutes a successful outcome. I think we all have our own ideals of what constitutes success that we impose on youth today generally but especially on indigenous youth.
The way I would encourage you all to see it is that success is really providing the right framework and the right, equal opportunities for children to be able to engage in learning and development and then have them grow up to honour the gifts that they carry. When I say “gifts”, I'm talking about the skills that they naturally have that they've been given the opportunity to develop over time, and access to the right teachers and the right coaches through the use of technology, as we do at Connected North.
Whether it be a lawyer, a mechanic or even a member of Parliament, it's important that we provide opportunities, various, varied and diverse opportunities to those kids. At Connected North, that's what we aim to do. We aim to level the playing field with technology and give equal opportunity to kids to seek out coaching and mentorship and to be inspired by a variety of teachers and leaders across the country, indigenous and non-indigenous, so that they can see themselves in the world out there and around them and position themselves to also achieve their goals and, most importantly, achieve their dreams.
Director of Innovation, Connected North
And not just be consumers, but be creators.
Conservative
Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON
Right. I appreciate that. Thank you very much for that context.
Michael, just very quickly—I don't have much time left—you alluded to the funding and the announcements that have been made. I know that maybe it's a bit outside your wheelhouse, but could you perhaps identify where those gaps are between the announcements and the funding and the actual outcomes, to use Gary's word, and the results on the ground when it comes to Internet connectivity?
Director of Innovation, Connected North
I think what we've heard from people is that the options that are becoming accessible to them are still far too expensive. They are double or triple the price in the south.
Deloitte did a great report on digital equity recently, and one of the things I suggested was maybe a direct subsidy to northern consumers, recognizing that they pay double or triple rates. It's really just that as these solutions come into being, they're much more expensive than they are in the south. They're not yet anywhere close to price parity, at least in the communities we've heard from.