Evidence of meeting #68 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lands.
A video is available from Parliament.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
Well, if I drive, it's only four and a half hours—
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
—but it's about 650 kilometres. The traditional boundary goes up.... If you get a map of Saskatchewan out, the heart of northern Saskatchewan is Cree Lake. That's the most northern tip of English River's traditional hunting and trapping grounds, the most northern reserve. That's about 1,000 kilometres north.
The end of the road community is about 600 kilometres away from Saskatoon, and where they purchased the land was south of Saskatoon on your way to Regina on the busiest stretch of highway.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin
Thank you, Mr. Vidal.
We'll now move to Mr. Battiste for six minutes.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Willy, for your comments.
For context, I went to high school in Saskatoon. My parents were out there for 30 years teaching at the University of Saskatchewan. I've come to know the area quite a bit over my lifetime. I've been really pleased to see how much economic growth has happened based on the urban reserves, casinos and things like them.
You said something very important. You said “land potential”. This whole study is premised on the idea that if there was a restitution of land to indigenous communities, they would have the potential to add to Canada's economic growth. Can you talk a bit about what you would see as the potential for more economic growth in your region and across Canada if there was a restitution of lands to indigenous people to help grow the economy?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
I come from a context where it's indigenous land regardless. We just have to act like it's our land, like we have from time immemorial.
Public policy-makers have such a challenge, because 90% of the population lives within 100 kilometres of the border. That population is aging. There's more pressure on those at this table and on your friends in the House to devote more money towards infrastructure and health care in the south.
What's going to drive the economy in the future is access to critical minerals in northern Canada. We need to start creating infrastructure driven by indigenous communities like we've done to unlock deposits of critical minerals. What we're doing now is asking resource companies to find super-deposits, because there's no infrastructure. The economics have to be in these massive super-deposits, which then have an inherently higher environmental risk. That's the vision. I think you can use the example we've set and the nation has set.
Our nation went out and looked at what lands we could first go to for hunting, trapping and fishing purposes. Those are the first lands we went after. As Mr. Calla said, that's the heart of indigenous peoples. It's the lands and where they grew up. Then they took the next step and said they need own-source revenue. We have this high-grade uranium in our backyard that is going to last for 100 years, but we need to now move and buy more lands to create economic development opportunities.
It needs to change from a rights and title discussion to strictly a business discussion. You look in some places, like our cousins in the United States, the Seminole Tribe.... They just bought the Mandalay Bay down in Las Vegas. They didn't do that because it's a rights and title discussion. They did it because it was a good business play.
Indigenous communities and indigenous business leaders like me are moving forward in that context. Land is at the core of how we can get to that and create value out of land.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Mr. Willy, there's often a misconception that indigenous communities are against development and economic growth. What I'm hearing from you is that more and more indigenous peoples in Canada are leading that growth in Canada and we shouldn't be scared of it.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
In certain pockets I think it has to be done correctly. You have to have proponents who are going to listen and look at three things from an environmental perspective. First is how our traditional knowledge is ingrained in the project design. Second is how we are included within the ongoing operations and monitoring of operations. Northern Saskatchewan has the first indigenous-led environmental monitoring program in the country. It's emulated in the Northwest Territories and Alberta. Third is how we'll be part of the reclamation and decommissioning of these projects.
If all of that is maintained, it's how we participate at the highest socio-economic levels. It's not just through tokenism and joint ventures, but real equity and revenue-sharing.
I do see a change in that happening, Mr. Battiste. I do think the north and the west have led that discussion.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you, Mr. Willy.
You spoke a bit about treaty land entitlements. For those of us who aren't from Saskatchewan, can you tell us what treaty land entitlements are and how the recognition of them has helped grow the communities?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
It's another great invention coming out of the first nations of Saskatchewan. It was driven with the premise that....
English River is an example. In the summer months, they'd go up to their hunting and trapping grounds in northern Saskatchewan. When the treaty commissioner came by, there was only one-quarter of the community in Patuanak along the Des Nedhe, the great river. They signed a treaty based on that number.
In Saskatchewan, the first nations pushed, saying that the numbers allocated during treaty signing were lower than what was actually reported. The Office of the Treaty Commissioner pushed for a number of first nations in Saskatchewan to get a bucket of money and a set of acreage. They could go out and resolve that past injustice. That's when communities like ours went out and secured their hunting, trapping and fishing right lands with Crown land. They then met with private landowners to secure some of the economic development lands.
I was listening to a story two elders were telling me last week. They had to come out here and convince former prime minister Chrétien to sign off on their economic development lands. They had a quota. They could only spend so much per acre. They said that was a bit paternalistic. He said, “Yes, let's get rid of that”, and they got their land.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
What I'm hearing is that, with the recognition of those treaty land entitlements and the money that was given, the first nations of Saskatchewan have been able to grow not only their economies but the economy of Saskatchewan as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jenica Atwin
Thank you, Mr. Battiste.
Ms. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Willy, for being with us today. I wish I could have taken you somewhere else. Obviously, we've been talking about all the benefits of economic development generated by land purchases in the west, for example, although this could manifest itself all over the territory—I dare to hope.
You spoke of reconciliation on the economic front, and I dare imagine that all types of reconciliation, so to speak, are interrelated. I don't want to make a typology of reconciliation, but reconciliation on the economic level is indeed another form of reconciliation.
Based on what you've seen, what you're seeing now, and even what you're planning, how does land restitution contribute to reconciliation, both economically, of course, and overall?
Thank you.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
I would fully support it. As I mentioned, I'm a believer that we need to act like we control and own the land already. There's a concept that we never gave it up. The act of providing land back would be a great step forward in reconciliation, of course, but I think we need to challenge our first nations to make sure they're creating their own economic development hubs with those opportunities.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
All right.
You talk about reconciliation on an economic level, but do you also see a connection between land restitution and the whole question of identity? I'm not saying that the economy isn't part of identity, far from it, but in what way do you link land restitution to the question of identity, to the question of survival and development other than economic development?
Thank you.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
Yes. Of course, there's an identity tied to it. You've seen with groups like James Bay Cree and the Tlicho in Northwest Territories and with Nunavut that pride of managing and being on your own lands, one hundred per cent. Examples like that go above and beyond just economic development. It's that tie to the land. It's that ability to actually call it your own.
We all know it's indigenous lands, but to officially say that and have control over every aspect of it is the ultimate form of reconciliation.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Without wanting to put words in your mouth, I'm also thinking about the issue of health, whether physical or mental, and culture. I'm not just talking about oral tradition, writing or dance, but culture in the broadest sense, which includes language, of course.
What do you see in the various practices? You mentioned the purchase of land, for example, in south Saskatoon, if I'm not mistaken, so far from the lands of the traditional territory. How do you view this acquisition? Do you also see any positive effects?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
Yes. We see positive impacts. It's a holistic viewpoint. To have a healthy culture, to have healthy health and to have happiness within your communities you need a strong socio-economic base. You need a diversified economy. You need the same options that people in urban centres have for education. You need the same quality of health care that you have in urban areas.
That's all very holistic. You still need a strong economy base. Our people are very pragmatic about it. We need to make money. It costs money to take a skidoo on the barren lands to go hunt caribou. Gas is upwards of two dollars a litre. What you see is that a lot of the people who work in the resource industry seem to keep their culture. The one thing that replaces our culture as indigenous people is poverty. That's the biggest threat to us.
It's engaging with resource developers or other players who can provide that economic support so that you can engage fulsomely in culture, in health and in happiness, if you will.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
That's fine, thank you.
Mr. Willy, when landowners manage to develop resources and add economic vigour to certain groups, how can that support all the other important aspects related to reconciliation, such as those I named earlier? In particular, we talked about health, and you mentioned the holistic perspective.
I know you have more than 20 years' experience, particularly in the field of commerce. Do you have any examples to share with us?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Des Nedhe Group
There are a couple of examples. On comprehensive land claim agreements, where the resource is located on first nations or Inuit on Inuit-owned lands, it creates dividends and payments into large trust funds that then support the social well-being of the community. In our instance, we don't technically own the land. There are still issues with obtaining reserve lands. You know, we're not allowed to leverage those lands.
We try to create value propositions that add value to the region around us to create own-source revenue. Once you have that own-source revenue, then you're less dependent on the federal government. All first nations I know want to be less dependent on the government. By creating OSR, you can say that you don't need this federal financing.
We are allowed then to invest in our own infrastructure as we see fit, which creates more employment. We are allowed to invest in our own health care services and holistic health care services, which we've seen. You have the all nations' health centre in Fort Qu'Appelle in Saskatchewan.
It's all about creating that economic foundation through the lands you own, where there could be resource development, some other type of revenue generation or, in our case, going commercial and creating lands for commercial and industrial use.
Liberal