Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 17th, 2023

[Patricia Mitchell, Executive Director, Manitoba USKE]

[Witness spoke in Ojibwa]

[English]

I'm trying to talk in my language. It's very emotional because it was forced from me, but I'm going to try to use it when I can.

I wanted to say that I'm very glad to be here today. I work with an organization that's been around since 1994, and it's only within the last five or six years that the federal government has allowed for an actual physical office to be created. We're situated in one of the urban reserves in Manitoba. It's the Peguis Indian reserve in downtown Winnipeg.

Some of the work that our office does.... We work with first nations to add land using the ATR policy and create new reserves, similar to the Peguis Indian reserve, the Long Plain Indian reserve and Swan Lake.

I'm very proud to say that it's part of our team in the background doing that work. Just today, one of the first nations we've been assisting.... They have been evacuated from their home community for over 10 years. In fact, this first nation has really been struggling to try to add land to the community.

Having to be evacuated from their lands completely decimated their.... They had no land. It's been very hard to try to work with them to get the bureaucrats to basically just get out of the way. It would be helpful if they just handed over the paperwork and let our office do the legwork, because I'm finding that's what's working for us and that's what's working for the first nations. This is because we know what they're going through and what the leadership and their lands department need, and we're going out of our way to support them as they go and create more land, whether it's for economic, development or residential....

Right now, we have about 12 first nations involved in doing a special lands project. It is a lot of work, but what I'm finding is that it's very beneficial when these urban reserves are created. They provide an economic opportunity, not only for the first nations, but also for the municipalities or the cities—or even the province, in this situation—because they're increasing the economic benefits for those regions.

Building that relationship with some of these municipalities has not been easy, but I'm very proud to say that since we started acting almost as a liaison or a bridge, some of these first nations, who have been stuck at tables for 15 years, are finally starting to see the benefit. It's in everybody's interest for them to work together.

In fact, some of them are talking about equity stake positions in a regional utility service. It's a big deal for a first nation in our region to be offered an equity stake in or part ownership of a utility in Manitoba. I'm not talking about the Crown corporation. The Crown corporation of Manitoba Hydro, which is owned by the province, has done a lot of damage to our first nations, including mine.

It's unfortunate that communities like mine have lost just under 900 acres of land and riverfront property. Right now, that first nation is not even in the queue anywhere to get land added through the ATR process.

To me, having riverfront property.... Even if you were to give them their land, it has to be more than that. We've hunted, we've trapped and we've fished. Even in our water, we can't fish where we want to fish. There are “no trespassing” and “private property” signs coming up on trails we use today.

It's difficult to see that. It would be nice if the province would open up that door for us to settle these treaty land entitlements that are owed to many of our first nations, because they are not, but they will definitely go out and lease, or they will go sell that land. If they were ever to try to settle all the TLE agreements in our region, there would not be enough Crown land for them to do that.

My suggestion, and I have shared this with bureaucrats, is that there has to be a different way for us to explore settling some of these land issues that are owed to the first nations in our region, whether it's giving them another building in downtown Winnipeg, or Brandon or somewhere.... It has to be a different process, because there's not enough land there.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you for your opening comments and for sharing.

We will go next to Mr. Al Hafez, for five minutes.

Whenever you're ready, the floor is yours.

[Shady Al Hafez, Research Fellow, Yellowhead Institute]

[Witness spoke in Algonquin]

[English]

I would first like to say meegwetch to the standing committee for giving me the time and opportunity to share my thoughts on the extremely important topic of land restitution.

I firmly believe that in the so-called era of reconciliation, the question of land—land ownership, jurisdiction and resources—is the most important question that needs to be resolved if our nations ever hope to coexist in peace and friendship.

My name is Shady Al Hafez. I'm an Algonquin Anishinabe and Syrian, and I'm a member of Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg. I'm currently a Ph.D. student at the University of Toronto, in the department of sociology, and hold a research fellow position with the Yellowhead Institute, which is an indigenous-led think tank housed at Toronto Metropolitan University.

It is fitting that I join this discussion today on my nation's unceded ancestral territory, lands that my ancestors never relinquished to Canada through any formal treaty mechanism, or through any conflict. Despite this reality, Canada has chosen our lands as its capital and the home for its national government.

Although I'm not an official representative of my nation, it is only from my context as an Algonquin that I speak and it is only to that context that I can speak.

Ours is a nation whose territory has slowly been occupied over time, and we have experienced dispossession and removal from our lands and territories. The current mechanisms that exist to seek redress solidify that occupation.

In order for my nation and many other nations across this country to get land back, or cash back for lands taken, we have had to participate in outdated, costly and excruciatingly long processes and mechanisms, established with the intent not of providing restitution to first nations, but of reconciling Canada's lack of true ownership over land as highlighted through surrender clauses.

The limitations of the specific and comprehensive claims processes are well documented, as are the challenges of pursuing title claims. This reinforces the notion that true restitution can be accomplished only through the co-development of mechanisms that actively place government and first nations as equal partners in the development of a process that prioritizes restitution over reconciliation.

For nations and communities that choose to assert their jurisdiction over land with or without the support of their elected leadership and outside of government-sanctioned processes, we see how Canada actively narrows the means by which we can access land.

My nation, as have other nations, has pursued assertion methods such as actively occupying our territories and asserting our rightful jurisdiction. In these circumstances, community members and elected leaders have been served injunctions and been surveyed, arrested and harassed by police, and have experienced racism and violence from Canadians. This reinforces the notion that there is only one acceptable way to seek restitution, and that is through government-developed and sanctioned processes alone.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry. I'm going to pause just for a second.

Could you slow down the pace a little, so our translators can keep up?

[Shady Al Hafez]

I'm sorry.

This makes me question the intentions of a nation that states that it wishes to reconcile, while its actions show that reconciliation can take place only on Canada's terms and conditions.

Lastly, in the midst of a housing crisis and the rising cost of living in this country, I would like to address how those of us who reside within our ancestral territory but away from our home communities and reserves are currently being priced out of our lands.

For me and my fellow community members, home ownership outside of our communities is not feasible. Knowing that, it is extremely difficult to see Canadians' inherent wealth vis-à-vis land and property, knowing that those lands and the wealth transferred from them through inheritance were wrongfully acquired.

For me, land restitution extends beyond the borders of my community and can be exemplified by my ability to acquire and own land as well as a home on my own territory, utilize that land and property to generate wealth for my family and community, and, ultimately, pass down my land and associated intergenerational wealth to my children in the same manner as Canadians have been able to build their societies on our lands.

This requires that we think outside of the box when it comes to developing tools and mechanisms to support the acquisition of land and property outside of the reserve. In the same manner as early settlers were given a boost to access wealth through our lands outside of traditional lending and mortgages, we should be exploring how to equitably offer home and land ownership opportunities to first nations individuals throughout their entire territories, not just on reserve.

Restitution also means addressing the current inequities that exist as a result of the wealth and sustainability offered to Canadians through settlement and occupation of our lands and territories.

Meegwetch for this opportunity to speak. I look forward to any questions you might have.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you for your comments.

In the first round we have Mr. Viersen, who will have five minutes.

Whenever you're ready, the floor is yours.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses for being here as well.

To the witness from the Yellowhead Institute, your final comments were very interesting around new ways of.... I think you were referencing the homesteading process and things like that.

Can you flesh that out? Do you have any ideas on alternative methods of reconnecting indigenous people with their lands through something like that?

[Shady Al Hafez]

I'm thinking in particular of granting processes for down payments on homes or lands outside of first nations communities for first nations individuals from the territory. As an example, I'll say right now, outside of my own home community, in order for me to be able to buy land or property in Ottawa, which is unceded ancestral territory for me and most community members, that's completely out of reach given the socio-economic conditions within our community. Most of us are born with a bad credit rating, so to be able to get a mortgage or a loan is quite difficult.

I think we need processes or mechanisms in place to even the playing field a little when it comes to home ownership and land ownership outside our first nations communities. I think on reserve it's definitely important as well, but thinking outside of my community, I still live on my territory but I can't afford to live on my territory.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

There is an endless amount of Crown land in this country. Do you have any thoughts around reigniting the homesteading claims process in that respect, dedicated to first nations people?

[Shady Al Hafez]

I definitely do. I hold the position that Crown lands that are not currently being utilized—I'll maybe pinpoint provincial parks and nature reserves such as the ones very close to Ottawa—can definitely be returned to Algonquin community members and nations, and the land can be utilized in the way those communities see fit.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

One of the challenges we've had as a country across the board is around identification of who is a community member. That is always going to be the case.

How does your community identify who is a community member?

[Shady Al Hafez]

We don't. CIRNAC tells us who our community members are.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

You can see how that's a challenge.

[Shady Al Hafez]

We do. We identify. We know who we are, but our membership is controlled by CIRNAC. Currently we don't have a membership law in Kitigan Zibi.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

There have been discussions around an indigenous development bank. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Shady Al Hafez]

Any mechanism for indigenous people to be able to access capital outside of the traditional institutions is beneficial for communities. There are a lot of barriers that exist when it comes to indigenous people and the traditional finance system, and creating indigenous-owned systems such as the one you mentioned.... I know there are other organizations in the city here, such as NACCA, that are involved in creating investment opportunities for indigenous people. I think those are great options.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Can you explain NACCA a bit?

[Shady Al Hafez]

It's the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Is there any one of these organizations that I wouldn't be aware of that you think you should highlight for us?

[Shady Al Hafez]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of one at the moment.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Patricia, are there any?

There are discussions around needing an indigenous development bank. Do you have anybody you could point to and say, “This is the guy that we have to talk to about something like that,” or, “Here's a group that's doing something interesting around that”.

[Patricia Mitchell]

I think the newly created corporation, the First Nations Finance Authority, I think it's called, or the Financial Management Board—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Harold Calla.

[Patricia Mitchell]

—is something that's been creative and is helping a lot of first nations. They're finding that there are some issues with it, but it's somewhere to start, isn't it? It'll give them that financial support.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Chief Louis, around the indigenous development bank idea, do you have any comments on that?