Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 9th, 2023

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I now have a question for Steve.

Steve, I am so proud of you, and I want to work with you. You want to be united with other nations: with first nations, Métis and the Inuit. You are right.

Together, how can you and I have more solidarity as indigenous peoples of Canada?

[Steve Meawasige]

Thank you for those kind words.

I agree that what we need to do is sit down and talk people to people, not nation to nation. We need to sit down and talk about who we are and how everybody has been affected by this. We're affected by the opioid crisis. We're affected by water. We're affected by murdered and missing women.

Nobody draws the line on that. Nobody can say, “Oh, you're more affected than I am.” We're all affected the same. The Indian Act treated us all the same way.

It was you who decided about residential schools. It was you who decided everything that has brought us to this table today. It is you people who can now say, “Maybe we got it right this time. We passed Bill C-53 and now all three nations are working together.”

I think that's what it will take to make us work together, all three nations.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Lori, you're out of time.

I'm going to move now to Mr. Zimmer, who has the floor for five minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start off by saying that's a great part of this particular committee, INAN, the indigenous and northern affairs committee. It's a place for indigenous communities to be heard.

We know that indigenous communities are struggling this very day because of the carbon tax. We have heard from first nations, Métis and Inuit leaders across Canada that it is a challenge for their communities.

An article from this week was entitled “Ontario Indigenous group wants exemption to carbon tax”. It says, “Chief Abram Benedict says policy is unfair to Indigenous communities”. A similar comment from a Métis group from the Northwest Territories was that what this carbon tax does is cost struggling indigenous families more. A real simple message is “axe the carbon tax”. There's another message from another leader. This particular leader is an Inuit leader from Nunavut, a former MLA for Nunavut, who said that her Inuit priorities are how the carbon tax is affecting Nunavut cost of living.

That's what brings me to the motion before us today, which I gave notice for as of Tuesday. It reads:

That pursuant to standing order 108(2), given that Ontario Grand Chief, Abram Benedict of the Akwesasne First Nation says the carbon tax is an unfair policy for Indigenous communities, that the committee undertake a study of five meetings, to examine the impact of the carbon tax on first nations communities across Canada, that the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and the Minister of Indigenous services appear, and that the committee seek additional resources in order to accommodate these meetings.

I understand that there's a friendly amendment being offered by Ms. Idlout to add a few groups. In speaking with Ms. Idlout, we have spoken about adding “Inuit and Métis” to this particular motion so that it's all-inclusive.

I will move that, Mr. Chair.

Again, if Ms. Idlout has a comment to make about her friendly amendment, I would like to give her some time to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm setting up a speaking list. I have Mr. Battiste, Mr. Viersen and Madame Gill. We will start with those three.

Mr. Battiste, we'll go to you first.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

First off, I want to apologize to the witnesses that this testimony has been sidetracked with this motion. I respect that you guys have done a lot to get here to testify, and I apologize. Sometimes these things happen at committee, where, necessarily, the committee study takes a back seat to the agenda of a certain party.

With that, I want to say that I think we should call this to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you. I need to go through the speaking list.

I have Mr. Viersen.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just apologize on behalf of the Government of Canada that they are unable to tax Canadians equally across the country, and that's what this motion is about: ensuring that home heating fuel is not taxed across the country. I'm happy to vote on this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I have Madame Gill and then Ms. Idlout.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I read the motion. I did not have the chance to talk to Mr. Zimmer, but if we ended up debating it, I would also propose some amendments.

Before going any further, I would like to apologize to the witnesses, who are here to talk about something else.

First, there is the issue of first nations representation. The motion calls for ministers to appear without any regard, in my opinion, for the First Nations, Inuit or Métis. I think they need to speak for themselves. They have to do it themselves. That is a serious flaw in the motion to not even talk about those directly concerned. That is one thing.

Then, the issue is the carbon tax. Obviously, other chiefs will talk about climate change and the repercussions on their communities. I would like to see that in the motion. We have been able to address this a few times in committee. Some chiefs talk about the carbon tax, of course, but I think that this is part of the same discussion.

The question of budgets is the whips' responsibility, in my opinion. I would also like that to be mentioned in the motion.

If you want me to send my amendments, Mr. Chair, I can do so. I already have them in both official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I just want to clarify before I go to Ms. Idlout. Are you putting forward any amendments to the...?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Some have already been proposed, I believe. What is more, Mrs. Idlout also proposed one. I am not sure that it was tabled.

Can you tell us where things stand? I am prepared to propose my amendments. To me, the motion is not acceptable.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

The motion from Tuesday was distributed, but none of the amendments have been distributed.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Indeed, but I have amendments to propose. I can send them to the clerk, if you want.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Ms. Idlout, the floor is yours.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to verify what Mr. Zimmer said about talking about this with him, because we both agree that Métis nations should be included. If we're going to vote on it, then I would say yes to an amendment. I would vote on it if there was an amendment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Are you making that amendment?

I need clarification because, if we have an amendment, we need to deal with the amendment and then the motion as amended.

Ms. Idlout, are you putting forward an amendment at this time?

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Yes, I would want it amended to state that Inuit and Métis nations be included with the first nations.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay.

Next on the speaking list I have Mr. Zimmer and then Mr. Battiste.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, everybody.

Again, I appreciate your comments.

Ms. Gill, I'll answer your question. All these groups and witnesses would appear to tell their stories. Again, it's all about having their voices heard, like we've been hearing ourselves. It's a place for them to come to committee to have their voices heard on this particular issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll go to Mr. Battiste.

Lori, I'm not sure if your hand is still up from the first intervention or if you want to get back on the list.

Mr. Battiste.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We only have one minute left of committee time, and I'd like to make a motion to adjourn debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That then becomes a votable motion, so I'm going to call the vote on adjourning debate at this point.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

You might want to go around, because I don't think the people appearing virtually are seeing what you're doing.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Is the motion to adjourn debate?