Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Cassidy Caron]

Citizens have the right to choose who represents them. Once again, if I were a Métis person living in Alberta and I didn't chose the Métis Nation of Alberta to represent me, then I wouldn't register for citizenship within that.

The self-government agreements, this piece of legislation, only affect the Métis governments and the collectivities, those who choose to be a part of those collectivities. The individuals, the communities, that choose to be outside are not affected.

Qujannamiik.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That takes us to the end of the first round.

We are going into a slightly shorter and faster second round.

First, I have Mr. Vidal for five minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, President, for being here today and for the conversation.

I know that you've been following the proceedings very closely and what's been going on over the last several weeks, and you've heard the concerns. We spoke quite a bit about the Chiefs of Ontario and some of those concerns in northern Ontario.

I want to talk a little bit more about what my colleague Ms. Idlout talked about and the concerns that are being raised by Métis groups, both the MMF and the Métis settlements, the folks from Alberta. We haven't heard a lot from Saskatchewan, but we have in some of these other communities.

Maybe let me start with just framing this. Since you're the national president who represents all of these organizations or Métis people in the country, I'm going to give you an opportunity to offer your comments on what the concern is for you in the divide between your own people—between your own communities, so to speak—and what that means to you.

[Cassidy Caron]

Absolutely.

I come back to the democratic right to choose. It's the democratic right to choose who represents you, to vote for who represents you and to be a part of a collectivity that represents you. It's always the right to choose. That is our democratic right. Again, Métis people value democracy.

As the president of the Métis National Council, I believe what's really important here is to recognize that the Métis National Council is not a Métis government. We are comprised of Métis governments. Those Métis governments have been comprised of citizens and leaders who have been organizing for generations, who have been doing this work for generations, for so long. They have been acting as governments for our people up until this point.

Those governments were the ones who came together in 1983, 40 years ago, to say that we need a national voice at the national level and at the international level. They created the Métis National Council. I get my direct mandate from them. It's really important for me to explain that, once again, the Métis National Council is not a Métis government. We are comprised of Métis governments, and those Métis governments are the ones who represent the section 35 rights of Métis citizens. Again, we always have the right to choose.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I don't want to cut you off, but I'm very limited here.

I'm going to comment back. You can maybe make a quick comment, but I want to get to one more question.

I was out in northern Saskatchewan last week, to be honest with you, talking to people in a number of Métis communities. One of the concerns about the right to choose is that, if I have the right to choose but choose not to, then I'm not going to qualify for some of the health benefits and some of those kinds of things that are going to be part of the self-government recognition. It comes with funding for providing health benefits and some of those section 35 rights. If I choose not to be represented by one of the provincial Métis organizations, then my right to choose means that I don't have access to some of those benefits.

Can you give me as quick a comment as you can in response to that? I really do want to get to one more question.

[Cassidy Caron]

We can talk about this, but once again, this legislation only talks about internal self-government and how the Métis governments are administered.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

In fairness, President, you're talking about the individual having the right to choose who represents them in the context of the Métis settlements, compared to the MNA, in this case. That is a concern.

I don't want to get into a debate with you, because I really want to get one more question in. You and I can chat later a little bit.

[Cassidy Caron]

Absolutely.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

We had the MMF here a few weeks ago, and I'm sure you were watching. In the context of some of the concerns they raised, they made a comment—which I think we're all aware of. They're in the final stages of treaty negotiations with the Government of Canada for MMF.

My question is actually pretty simple. I'm just curious about your response.

What happens if Bill C-53 doesn't get passed but the MMF treaty does? What does that mean to MNC and the three organizations that we're talking about in this legislation?

[Cassidy Caron]

What's really important to note here is that there is no one way to move towards self-government. I think that is exactly what is being demonstrated here—one Métis government moving towards self-government in one way and three Métis governments choosing to move towards self-government in another way.

What we are here to do is to talk about the implementation legislation. I think there has been a precedent set for this process previously where first nations have opted to use this process in which legislation comes first and treaty negotiations come second. That has been done successfully. I'll reference it for the committee. It is the Yukon first nations agreement. I think it's really important to know that this process is not new and that it's the option that our Métis governments have chosen to use.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I think he's going to cut me off right about now.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Atwin.

You have five minutes on the clock. The floor is yours.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much for being here, President Caron. It's always great to have you at committee.

I would love to ask.... The majority of voices that we're hearing in support of the bill or just clarifying it for us are the voices of women. Why do you think that is?

[Cassidy Caron]

I love that question. Thank you so much.

Women have played a significant role in the development and the forward movement of the Métis nation throughout our history. You know, it's really important that we recognize the roles that Métis women have played historically throughout the Métis nation. Through history textbooks, we know a lot about Louis Riel, and some of us know about Gabriel Dumont, but we don't know about the women behind the scenes who were involved in the conversations and taking care of the nation behind closed doors.

Today, women are taking seats in leadership roles. I am the first elected woman to hold the presidency of the Métis National Council. Our general assembly is comprised of at least 50% women, if not more. Women have this ability to see beyond themselves and to see where we need to go in the future. This bill is exactly that. It's where we need to go in the future for the Métis nation. I would just imagine that a lot of our women see this as a positive step forward for the Métis nation.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

My other favourite subject to talk about is youth. How do you see youth being involved in the implementation of the provisions in this legislation?

[Cassidy Caron]

Anywhere and everywhere they want to be involved. I got my start as a youth leader at the Métis National Council as well. I played a role, but it was only last month that we actually implemented a national Métis youth council. Métis youth play a huge role in the Métis nation's governance. Louis Riel was only 24 when he first took his seat as president of the first provisional government.

Young people have played such a significant role in the Métis nation. If I may, I'll take this time to thank those Métis youth who have come to this committee and so bravely testified to share their stories and to fight for the Métis nation. That's what they're doing. They are the ones who are not only the leaders of the future but the leaders of now. They see where this is going, and I have so much gratitude for those young people who have so bravely sat here and testified to this committee on this bill.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

In 2013, the Supreme Court of Canada commented on the need for reconciliation with the Métis nation, stating, “The unfinished business of reconciliation of the Métis people with Canadian sovereignty is a matter of national and constitutional import.”

Can you speak to the impacts that the long history of Métis denialism and the historical reluctance to acknowledge the existence of Métis as a nation, a rights-bearing indigenous group, have had on your people?

[Cassidy Caron]

In my opening statement, I referenced a lot of those pieces where there have been promises made to Métis people to implement section 35 over the last 40 years. Since the constitutional conferences, Métis leader Jim Sinclair, when those ultimately failed, said, “This is not the end. This is just the beginning...[my] people will be back.”

We are back. We are here to continue to pursue this fight to implement self-government, to do the right thing. It is a matter of constitutional import. This is the unfinished business of Confederation. Métis people have played a historic and a significant role in this country, and it's time for our people to take what is theirs and move forward in the best way possible.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I feel hopeful and positive about this process. Initially we thought it would be a bit more simple. We thought we would be able to move forward a little bit faster, because we see the government is here at the table seeking to truly be a partner with this codeveloped legislation.

Again, we have heard from a lot of voices who also have concerns, particularly in first nation leadership. I'm looking for guidance, really. I would characterize it as that there's some fear. There's some anger associated with it as well.

Could you help us negotiate this? Why do you think that is?

[Cassidy Caron]

It's because of colonialism, quite frankly. One of our young people spoke to this quite well during a previous hearing when she said that through colonialism, through colonial policies and practices, our people have been pitted against each other.

I think it's really important to know that there is not one pie that we are all taking from. Métis rights are not derivative from first nations rights. They do not take away from anybody's rights. We have these rights. Because this is new, it is scary. However, it's not new. We've been talking about this for 40 years. I'd love to continue to talk about this, but it's not new. There's not one pie. It is not taking away from.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

We're going to go now to Madame Bérubé for two and a half minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We talk a lot about legitimacy, which seems to be an issue of great importance.

What do you say to communities that question the legitimacy of the three Métis governments involved, the Métis Nation of Alberta, or MNA, the Métis Nation of Ontario, or MNO, and the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan, or MNS?

[Cassidy Caron]

Once again, I would refer to our objectively verifiable registries, the strict processes and policies that are in place for citizenship, again, making it clear that citizenship is something that is self-determined by the nation. That is a right of the Métis nation.

All of these pieces have been promised through different processes. It has been affirmed in the courts. The Supreme Court of Canada recognizes that there is at least one section 35 rights-bearing Métis community in Ontario, and that's what this legislation is about. It is self-government for these Métis governments.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

First nations testifying before the committee often mention that there was a great lack of consultation.

What do you think of this argument?

[Cassidy Caron]

Once again, this legislation is about only the three Métis governments—how they govern themselves, how they run their elections and how they take care of their children. What is in this legislation did not trigger any duty to consult with first nations because it does not affect anybody outside of these three Métis governments and the collectivities.