Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, there has been no formal request. It might have been mentioned in the media, but there has been no formal request for exemption.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thanks, Mr. McLeod.

That is getting into debate, but it has been noted.

I'll let Mr. Zimmer finish.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I think we clarified that very well.

Speaking about the nature of “Ottawa knows best”, the member said that we're proposing something to that effect. I think it's the exact opposite. We're actually trying to put on the record in this committee that we're going to respect the territories' decision to pursue an exemption. As was said before by Minister Guilbeault, it would be his job to grant any further exemptions, after we saw the granting of one to Atlantic Canadians who use home heating oil.

I'll further quote the deputy premier. This is from NNSL, a periodical that's well known in the territories.

“I think the Premier has spoken to this—this is a tax that is putting the North in a position to pay for something that we are actually a very small contributor to, GHG...emissions, with one of the least opportunities to get ourselves off those GHG emissions,” she added.

That's because they have to stay warm in the cold.

“This is really why we wanted to hang onto control of it, because the federal government in this instance made a change that benefits people who use home heating fuel in their homes, but in other cases could just as easily make a political decision that would not benefit people.

“We would want to be insulated from being directly impacted from a political decision coming from Ottawa. We've been holding on ourselves to having our own system in the North that was designed in the North, meant to apply in the North.”

The whole principle that started this—and the member would know this well—was that somebody in the Northwest Territories was formerly allowed to be granted rebates on home heating. Then—I think it was last April—the Prime Minister said he was sorry but they couldn't do that anymore. They couldn't grant rebates for the carbon tax to their citizens anymore. It put the people who live in the Northwest Territories and their leaders in this very difficult position.

Again, I'll refer to Jackie Jacobson. I call him the carbon tax warrior. He was one of the ones who stood up and said that they already had out-of-control food prices up in the north and that now they were seeing a quadrupling of the carbon tax too. He said it was going to be implemented and mandated across the country by the Prime Minister, and it looked as though he would not allow the Northwest Territories to do what it wanted to do by offering its own rebates.

Again, the spirit of this motion is to support the people of Northwest Territories. We've seen in the news that this might come up this week in their legislature. This is an opportunity for the federal government to say that it supports folks, especially in the north, and to recognize that they are a very small contributor to GHG emissions. We heard that mentioned in committee today. Here's a real opportunity to help folks who are struggling in the north. We as a committee could come forward and say that we support them.

That's what this motion is about. I challenge every member to vote yes for this motion today.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you, Mr. Zimmer.

Mr. Lemire, go ahead.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to say that the Bloc Québécois will vote against this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Ms. Rempel Garner, you're next.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I have just two brief points, Chair.

First of all, I listened to Mr. Battiste's comments about the impact of the carbon tax. I would note that Atlantic Canada was the one that got the carve-out. I'm not sure if he's suggesting that it should be “uncarved out”. He might want to clarify that. He can clarify that during the study.

I would also argue, to the point that was made about the Premier of the Northwest Territories requesting the carve-out, that the “formal request” by the premiers of the Atlantic provinces involved standing up day after day in the media and saying that they would not accept this—particularly after, I think, one particularly abysmal by-election result in Nova Scotia for the Liberals on this issue. I would just say this. If colleagues want to debate whether or not the Premier of the Northwest Territories wants this carve-out, they can have an opportunity to have him here to talk about it.

We should pass this motion. If my colleague opposite would like to say that the carbon tax should be “uncarved out” for Atlantic Canada, he could do so there too. That would be another reason to have the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Ms. Idlout, you're next.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

When I asked about other study ideas, I looked up a motion I had provided, and it was on water. Is that still on the list?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

The motion is still there, but my recollection is that we haven't carried it.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

All right. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I have no other speakers, so let's call the vote on the motion by Mr. Zimmer.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

Colleagues, the next thing I have on my list.... Do we want to take a minute to talk about travel? Do any of you have any ideas you'd like to put forward that we could direct our team to cost out over the next few days?

I'll go to Ms. Idlout and then Mr. Battiste. If anybody else wants to weigh in, please do.

Ms. Idlout, you're first.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

In a previous discussion, I suggested that we go to Thunder Bay, Ontario, depending on what study we do. I'm still interested in going to Thunder Bay, Ontario.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry. I just want to clarify. Is that related to the study that you're proposing, the water study from the NDP?

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Whatever the topic of the study is, I think there are many different kinds of issues that we could explore in Thunder Bay, which has several first nations communities. If we end up doing our study on water between April and June, then that's what I would suggest we go there for.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

To help us do a costing, do you have any idea of how many days we would like to be there for the topics that you're anticipating? This is just to help with building the budget or the proposal.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

I don't at this point, but I could work on that before the deadline.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, perhaps by Wednesday, if that's not too soon, you could come back with some thoughts, and we'll save some time at the end of the meeting for you to give your thoughts to the clerk and share them with the committee, which will give us time to build a proposal to be entertained by the committee.

Mr. Battiste.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

There have been some conversations, and I think one of the options potentially on the table that I'd like for us to discuss is the United Nations permanent forum on indigenous issues, which will be having discussions from April 15 to 26. This year, the theme is “Enhancing Indigenous Peoples' right to self-determination in the context of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: emphasizing the voices of Indigenous youth”.

I think this is something that we.... Many of us were able to go to the United Nations last year, and I thought it was great. We had a lot of very good dialogue with indigenous people from around the world, and I think it's a very informative few days. If we scheduled from the first part, from April 15 to April 18, it wouldn't take our flight budget because of the fact that all of us as MPs get at least one trip to New York—I think it's two that we're allowed per year. It would just take rooms for those members who are travelling.

I know that I have talked to our vice-chair about this, and I don't know if he's given any walking instructions to Conservatives on what this could potentially be, but I hope there would be some discussion on the possibility of our going to the United Nations permanent forum in New York on those dates.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, so that's another one that we can have a look at building a proposal for to explore.

I have Mr. Carr and Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In that sense, yes—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry. It was my mistake. It's Mr. Carr first, and then Mr. Lemire.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It's okay.

I suggest Churchill, Manitoba. Churchill plays a vital role not only for Manitoba but for the entirety of the north. I think there are a lot of very interesting things that we could look at there, ranging from national defence policy to international exports from the Port of Churchill, education, infrastructure and Internet infrastructure in particular. There are also a couple of very fascinating energy projects currently being considered.

I think it's a place that people would enjoy. It's a place where people would see the potential that exists in terms of the increasing importance the north is going to have in our country. The invitation would always be there, I know, from Mike Spence, the mayor of Churchill, and others in Manitoba.

I understand it's a little bit farther and a little bit harder to get to, but depending on where the issues being undertaken for a study from this committee go, that would be an interesting cross-section. I put that out there, perhaps not with as much enthusiasm as some of my colleagues have for their respective choices, but nonetheless, it's there. It's not going anywhere, so if we don't get to it this time around, perhaps it's something that we can be mindful of moving forward.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Now, Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Obviously, I would be very pleased to welcome the committee to Abitibi-Témiscamingue or the surrounding area. The Kitcisakik community could be particularly interesting in terms of the water issue.

However, at this point, I want to talk about the proposal to attend the UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues. That's a great idea. The session will be held from April 15 to 26, and we have a parliamentary recess the week of April 22 to 26, so I propose that we use that week in order not to miss any sitting days of the House.

Thank you.