Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2024

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The statistics are alarming. Despite making up just 8% of the child population, indigenous children are said to account for 54% of children in the child welfare system in Canada.

The ruling should be respected, but it raises questions about implementation as it relates to Criminal Code enforcement, which is generally the responsibility of the provinces, except in cases involving sentences of more than two years. Public safety, prisons and judicial appointments are provincial responsibilities.

Who will cover the cost of ensuring that indigenous peoples can assume responsibility for child protection? It is a significant responsibility that will likely require billions of dollars.

Is the federal government going to fulfill its role and step up? It has to cover those costs, because it bears the responsibility according to the ruling.

[Katrina Peddle]

Thank you for your question.

We are still reviewing the decision. There's no doubt that significant coordination will be necessary between the provinces and territories, the federal government and communities to put everything in place for the delivery of child and family services.

As for how the decision relates to funding, I'm going to ask one of my justice colleagues to answer that.

[Valerie Phillips]

Thank you for your question.

I'm going to answer in English to make sure the information I give you is accurate.

The court did not speak specifically to finance and funding of the program. I think that is what your question was. They don't speak specifically to that.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That is precisely the problem. It becomes a political issue. We all want to support the self-determination of indigenous peoples, but if no one steps up to pay the bill, indigenous children will end up being the ones who suffer most. Downloading costs yet again to Quebec will worsen the fiscal imbalance, and that is another major concern.

Is the federal government going to step up as per the ruling? Who is going to pay the bill?

[Katrina Peddle]

That's a good question.

In the past few years, we've increased program funding for indigenous child and family services by more than 200% to ensure that first nations across the country receive more funding.

The agreements we've signed to date ensure that the funding is really in line with the needs. The communities tell us what they need, what their models are and where their priorities lie. Our goal is to make sure we provide them with long-term funding. We've signed 10-year agreements with a number of communities to ensure that they benefit from this funding not just next year, but also in the coming years.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'd like to hear about the consultation mechanisms that were put in place, especially with Quebec.

In the interest of transparency, are you going to make the tripartite coordination agreements available on your website or otherwise?

[Katrina Peddle]

Thank you for your question.

I'm going to have to ask my justice colleagues to provide more information, but the agreements are signed with the communities, so in keeping with the codevelopment model, we can't make that decision without their consent.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Did you consult communities in Quebec?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry. That's the end of your time.

We'll now go to Ms. Gazan.

Ms. Gazan, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much for being here today.

For my first question, you spoke about capacity building, and I'm looking at the Government of Canada website about the funding for capacity building. Is it not proposal-dependent? Just say yes or no.

[Katrina Peddle]

Yes. It is proposal-dependent at this time.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just because a community submits a proposal wanting to build capacity so that they can obtain jurisdiction, that doesn't mean they're actually going to be supported for it. Is that right?

[Katrina Peddle]

To date, communities are typically supported for it, yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will be. Is it a guarantee when they put in a proposal that they will be provided what is needed to build capacity?

[Katrina Peddle]

There are certain criteria that must be met.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, so the answer is no.

Moving on, the website says, “yearly maximum funding as per funding chart below” and “the number of proposals received”. Let's say everybody met the criteria. It would still depend on “the number of proposals received and the total funding available”.

How much funding is currently available?

[Katrina Peddle]

The current funding is $100 million per year.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You can have more than $100 million for communities, because we're talking about reconciliation and wanting to get our kids back. If it exceeds the $100 million, there's no extra money for that. Is that right?

[Katrina Peddle]

At the current time.... I will say that, to date, we haven't had to turn people down. We've been able to meet those requests.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, but it is a possibility.

[Katrina Peddle]

It's certainly a possibility.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay.

Just building on what my colleague from the Bloc was talking about on funding, one of the concerns was from the Caring Society for children and youth, from Cindy Blackstock. She said, “Now it is up to the provincial, territorial and federal governments to make sure they provide the resources and supports needed for First Nations, Métis and Inuit children and youth”.

The problem is that there's a huge gap, as indigenous nations do not have the resources or, often, the capacity to do this on their own. How much funding has been allocated for child welfare services on reserve to date?

[Katrina Peddle]

That is a question that I'll have to return to you on with an exact number.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes, please do if you could.

The current federal government, after over 13 non-compliance orders, was ordered by a Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruling to immediately stop racially discriminating against children on reserve. It ended up paying $17 billion less than what was asked for by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruling.

Although I know there's good talk about reconciliation in terms of giving our kids back, it often doesn't come with money. Is there a plan with the federal government to ensure that any child welfare system—any community assuming jurisdiction over a child welfare system—will be provided equal amounts of allocated funding as for kids off reserve? Has that been affirmed?

[Katrina Peddle]

That's a very good question. Thank you for that.

The agreement in principle regarding long-term reform of the child and family services program does provide that there will not be less that will be provided under the act than a first nation would receive under the agreement in principle. So yes—