Evidence of meeting #20 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cut-off.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Presumably, part of the consultation since 2023 has included northern members, modern treaty holders and self-governing nations. Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
Director of Registration Reform, Registration Reform and Policy, Procedures and Program Management, Department of Indigenous Services
Yes, our consultation process has included modern treaty holders and nations that are governed by self-government agreements.
Certainly, their perspectives will vary, as they see themselves less impacted or touched by the Indian Act. I would highlight that even for nations that are self-governing, the registration provisions continue to endure or be preserved for their members, but the implementation considerations are different, because they may control their own membership or have own-source revenue or other things that are a consideration.
It's really their feedback that also helps us anticipate where concerns may emerge in the future when we're projecting into the future as well in terms of programs and services at the federal level.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Ms. Doran, you also mentioned community-level data and the importance of that versus gross data.
Could you elaborate a bit on what processes you are establishing for that?
Director of Registration Reform, Registration Reform and Policy, Procedures and Program Management, Department of Indigenous Services
Absolutely.
During the codesign and co-development process, part of that also included information sharing. We've continued to offer information sessions publicly to individuals and to nations by request. We host those sessions on Thursdays, virtually. We also visit communities to provide information about the second-generation cut-off, Bill S-2 and other issues.
Specifically when it comes to community-level data, we have made every first nations' registered 6(2) population publicly available through our open data platform and on our Internet site. Beginning in 2024, we mailed community-level data sheets, both electronically and by postal mail, to each first nation. It included an information kit that's available on our website about the second-generation cut-off and section 10 voting thresholds. Then it specifically had the 6(2) population of their community and what that could mean in the future, as a way to start to build that awareness and readiness for consultation.
In closing, I'd also say that a lot of our information, whether it's the consultation plan, what we heard from partners, this community-level data or the rights holder information-sharing kit, is available on our department's website. We know trust is a factor, so we want to continue to consult in a way that's very transparent.
Liberal
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Madam Doran, I don't have it verbatim, but you mentioned that it's not a matter of if; it's a matter of how.
Can you explain that again?
Director General, Individual Affairs, Department of Indigenous Services
Yes, for sure.
We're not consulting on whether to remove the second-generation cut-off; the government is committed to a solution. The consultation is the “how”. The one-parent rule in perpetuity is one solution—removing it and going back to what existed pre-1985, with just one registration category. There are self-determined approaches that are both within and outside of the Indian Act. Think of an institution or an agency that brings the role of the registrar outside of the department to something that's co-managed.
There are different approaches. Those are the things that we're asking in the consultation: What approach to remedying this resonates with you? We'll respond to your particular community's perspectives, traditions and approaches.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Who gave your department that kind of mandate, so that you're not discussing if, but how? Is it the ministers themselves that gave the direction to do this?
Director General, Individual Affairs, Department of Indigenous Services
Yes, we have the authority to consult on a solution and bring forward a legislative remedy. It's enshrined in action plan measure 2.8 of the “UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Action Plan”.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
This is probably the third time I'm asking this: Do you have an end-goal date on getting the “how” done?
Director General, Individual Affairs, Department of Indigenous Services
Once we know what the appropriate solution is, we need to seek the legislative authority to change the law and we need to prepare for the implementation of the solution.
Those are all the considerations being unearthed through the current process.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Do you have a date, though, for getting that done? Is it mandated, maybe by the ministry, as an end-date goal?
Director General, Individual Affairs, Department of Indigenous Services
We don't have a date. We're committed to the process and to doing it as quickly as we can.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS
I found it interesting that when you were talking about potential solutions or remedies to figuring out the question of first nations status, you talked about DNA and blood quantum.
The research I did when I was researching this for the Mi'kmaq nation shows that there's nothing within our blood that would indicate whether we are Mi'kmaq, Cree, Inuit or any other nation.
What is the knowledge that we're working with that we would accept blood quantum and DNA as a potential solution? Do you have any witness that we could potentially hear from at this committee on the reliability of blood quantum in determining who is a status member of a first nations community?
Director General, Individual Affairs, Department of Indigenous Services
This isn't a solution coming from us. This is one of the solutions that has come forward from the call-out that we've done. I'm just sharing what has come into the department, which is why taking what comes forward and having it assessed for legal viability and charter compliance and other important factors and variables is really important. We don't want to consult on a solution that really is flawed by nature. I'm just reflecting what has come into the department.
Stuart could weigh in on this.
Director of Registration Reform, Registration Reform and Policy, Procedures and Program Management, Department of Indigenous Services
In terms of the specifics, I think we could follow up and provide that support for the benefit of the committee.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS
There are authors like Kim Tallbear who looked at mitochondrial DNA and its usage for determining indigenous identity and showed that it's not reliable because it only follows the maternal bloodlines, so you'd only be getting the mothers, grandmothers, great-grandmothers in terms of this blood quantum.
I'm wondering if technology has caught up in the 15 years since I did this research, and now we have metrics to determine a blood quantum. Is there anyone you would recommend us speaking to on this who would be able to give us an indication whether this is indeed a good idea? If we're all going through this committee to find the solution that can be found through DNA, that's something I'd be willing to listen to and look at in terms of this whole scenario of determining status. If it can be done through a DNA test, then it would save us a whole lot of work.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
That brings us to the end of our panel.
Thank you very much to everyone from Indigenous Services Canada for being our first panel in this study.
I will remind everyone to please get any more witness names you have in by Friday the 13th, end of the day.
Bill C‑10 has been sent to us. We will be undertaking that study. Please have some witnesses to us by Friday as well by end of the day, and we will commence that study when we return after our constituency week. We have a full slate on Thursday morning.
Thank you very much. Are there any further questions, discussions?
Go ahead.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thursday, we're going to continue on with this study. We have Cindy Woodhouse at 8:15 a.m. She will be here for the first hour, and then we have a few other witnesses as well that day. It will be a full slate of witnesses.
Again, I remind you to please send in more witness names for this study by Friday the 13th end of the day, as well as Bill C‑10, which we will engage in after we get back.
Thank you.
We are adjourned.