Evidence of meeting #23 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was treaties.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Councillor, K'ómoks First Nation
Rather than the Auditor General having a platform of many things to observe, the sole purpose of this is to ensure that modern treaties are being upheld.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
If the Auditor General is highlighting such inadequacies in terms of funding or results for clean drinking water and that kind of thing, it's failed over hundreds of years. It's not a Liberal versus Conservative thing here.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
It's still failing to this day. We had an evacuation the other day in northern Ontario because of unsafe water. How do we then...? We know this is going on. We know the government's looking after drinking water. We know that the Auditor General has come out with a report saying they're failing, and success for many of these nations would be zero boil water advisories.
Are we moving towards a piece in this legislation where we can say that, if the government does not live up to its word when it signs on the dotted line, what consequences happen?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
You have about 10 seconds to answer. If you find that you can't, you can always send it in writing as well.
Chief Councillor, K'ómoks First Nation
That's where litigation, dispute resolutions and things come in. That's not where modern treaty nations want to go. We'd rather get the commissioner to assist.
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Chief Nattawappio, as someone pointed out, the word “modern” may be a bit outdated. Your treaty is 30 years old, after all.
You were involved in the process of drafting Bill C‑10. Could you tell us how you were involved in that process and comment on the importance of that active participation?
Naskapi Nation of Kawawachikamach
Can you repeat that? It's hard for me to listen in French, because English is my second language, and then it's French.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Yes.
You were involved in creating this bill and in the task force that recommended establishing a commissioner position. Why was your participation important, and what was that process for you?
Lawyer, Naskapi Nation of Kawawachikamach
It was many years ago, so I don't know if I'll be able to give you a good answer.
There were a number of productive meetings and there was a common goal. Everyone agreed that Canada needed a commissioner to defend the things we cherish. There were a lot of meetings, and a lot of connections were made with communities that may have actual modern treaties. The first nations made all that happen.
Officially, this is a government bill, but it's based on the needs expressed by the main stakeholders, who felt that what it contained was sufficient. When you need a glass of water, you don't want someone to offer you orange juice. When you need water, you need water. That's essentially the message that everyone rallied around.
Basically, for first nations, not getting behind this bill because it has room for improvement could be seen as bad faith or as a way to shirk their obligation to implement treaties.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you.
Councillor Bennett and Chief Rempel, you mentioned the importance of active participation that enables people to make choices, but you said that may require resources. Do you think first nations may need additional resources to do the work they'll have to do with the commissioner?
Chief Rempel, could you answer the question?
Chief Councillor, K'ómoks First Nation
I'm sorry. Was the question around resources?
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Yes. Do you believe there's a need for additional resources or tools for your communities or modern treaty communities to work with the commissioner?
Chief Councillor, K'ómoks First Nation
I think there are always resources needed, no matter what level of government we're looking at. Budgets are always over budget.
At K'ómoks First Nation, we do what we can within our realm of capabilities, always looking for resources and putting in resources, when we have to, from own-sourced revenue.
I think the $2-million budget assigned to this, potentially, isn't enough, but it is a start. K'ómoks First Nation is always looking for constructive ways to collaborate and come to solutions, in an open and transparent manner that addresses the needs of everyone.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you.
We now have MP Lemire for two and a half minutes, please.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chief Nattawappio or Ms. Caron, on an annual basis, how much do you think the Naskapi Nation has incurred in legal fees to assert legitimate rights? How much would it not have had to spend if the government respected its agreements?
Lawyer, Naskapi Nation of Kawawachikamach
It's much too hard to put a dollar value on it. It's really more about time. A small nation like the Naskapi Nation can't afford to task employees, consultants and lawyers with looking into the implementation of the treaty instead of working on urgent local issues. We shouldn't spend time dealing with that.
So, yes, it's about money, but it's also about resources and time that could certainly be invested elsewhere. The time that the commissioner will devote to producing the report is time that will be given back to the nation. It will be less of a burden on the nation.
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Unfortunately, in too many cases, legal threats are the only way for first nations to be taken seriously and to compel the federal government to act. When it has an obligation to the courts, that's when it acts. Do you think this way of doing business can be changed?
Is the commissioner likely to have enough of an impact to allow first nations to focus their resources on more important things, such as their children?