Evidence of meeting #10 for Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
But this government has shown no interest in having an ombudsman.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
That's right.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
So if there is to be any forward movement on this particular file, it has to be either Bill C-300 or the government's press release.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
Well, then, I will accept what you say. I'm speaking now for the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada, which did participate, actively, in those round tables, and has done a lot of work on its own in talking to industry to ensure it has proper guidelines with respect to the environment, health and safety, and social responsibilities. We will agree with you that there should be a full-fledged ombudsman, not the watered-down system that has been now proposed by government. So we'll agree with you.
But this person should be Canadian-based and should be basing performance under CSR, under guidelines that exist in the world, not guidelines that are newly legislated in any way, which could become pretty cumbersome, which could involve a great political risk, and could leave us with no real system to solve the problem.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Okay. Here I thought we were going to be arguing. In fact, we might be agreeing.
Essentially, at this point, there are three things on the table. The ombudsman, which you and I would agree is the ideal choice, would be a legislated position, independent of government. There would be guidelines on conducting an investigation, standards of proof, and so on. That's not going to happen. The government has shown no interest in doing that.
Now we're down to the press release or Bill C-300. Under the press release, it's an order in council, and what a Prime Minister can order, a Prime Minister can un-order. We've seen that happen. In fact, as we speak, Mr. Page, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, is having his chain yanked by the government, because his information has been a little bit too cogent for the government.
My point is that it's a vulnerable appointment, whereas under Bill C-300 it's a legislated appointment. To take a person out of that position, you would have to repeal the legislation as opposed to having a pen and a piece of paper and repealing it.
The other big flaw in the government's press release is that a company can only be investigated if the company consents.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
But that's part of it; we need an ombudsman with proper....
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Yes, we agree. But if in fact one of your companies doesn't consent, then that's it, end of story.
It actually gets worse than that. If a complaint is received about a company, and they don't consent, at the end of the year the counsellor publishes a report saying, “Company X was complained about. It did not consent, and we have no report.”
That is the worst of all possible worlds for a company that may, for reasons best known to itself, not wish to consent.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
It won't only be companies that don't consent. I'll bet you that in many cases companies will consent. It will be the NGOs who turn tail. So many of these actions or claims or whatever are frivolous.
Let's have a proper ombudsman. I agree with you on that.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
We agree on that. In fact, we built into Bill C-300 a section for frivolous and vexatious complaints. I agree with you. I don't want Canadian companies spending of dollars trying to defend themselves against complaints that are frivolous and vexatious.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
It's a shame that, as you put it, the only solution is Bill C-300. I mean, what we really need....
We had a proper consultation, a proper negotiation, proper systems, and reports being tabled. It took two years for the government to respond to that report, and they came back with something that's watered down.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren
Sorry; this could go on for a long time, but your time is up.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Oh, really?
Actually, they have yet to respond. If you see the press release--
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
I've seen it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren
Maybe you could bring this up with Mr. Baird afterwards.
Mr. Lake.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
I like this Mr. Baird. This is a better Baird than the usual Baird we get.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
I did an interview for the CBC in French. The reporter went into the studio and said, “I have an interview with John Baird.” There was silence. My wife was listening to the radio, and the reporter said,
“Yes, it is Jon Baird, but this one is very nice.“
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
That happened on CBC--live.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren
Mr. McKay, you may be interested to know that the best thing about Mr. Baird is that he was born in Chatham, Ontario.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Oh, well, yes; all good things come out of Chatham, Ontario.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
It was at Chatham General Hospital. Do you want the date?
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I almost forgot what I was going to ask.
I want to talk a little bit about some of the things we've been working on as a government. The Prime Minister has been working on substantial free trade agreements, for example, with many countries around the world. Obviously there are talks going on with the EU right now, which is pretty important. That, in conjunction with....
We talk about stimulus programs and the impact that stimulus programs are going to have, but of course, a Canadian stimulus program on its own isn't going to drive a lot of business for the mining industry. It would have an impact. But obviously, there's an important factor to consider, which is the amount of stimulus happening around the world. That's the more important factor to consider for a free-trading nation, or a trading nation, like Canada. It's important that other countries are undertaking similar, coordinated stimulus actions.
This has been a big focus for the Prime Minister over the last few months. There's a focus on ensuring coordination, but he's also defending against protectionism and talking about the fact that protectionism is probably the worst thing that can happen in terms of the global economy.
Maybe you could talk about the importance of this combination of free trade, the fight against protectionism, and this coordinated stimulus around the world with respect to the demand for Canadian resources and the impact that will have on your members.
Managing Director, Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
Maybe Paul can reply on resources and I'll reply on trade and services.