Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors Committee on March 24th, 2009

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

In terms of the cyclical challenges you were talking about, prior to this global situation we were experiencing shortages in labour in many parts of the country. I anticipate that once we get through it, we'll get back to the situation where we have shortages in labour. When do you expect a bounce-back, and more importantly, I think, where do we expect to bounce back? Where do we expect we'll soon see shortages in labour emerging and what will the needs be?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Very quickly, could someone answer that question?

[François Delorme]

All I can add is that the situation in extremely sensitive sectors is expected to bounce back as the crisis eases. Cyclical shortages of skills are to be expected. From a structural standpoint, I couldn't tell you which sectors might experience job shortages. Obviously, we know that in the case of certain industries like construction and most likely in other areas of the technology sector, once the recovery takes hold, problems could arise in terms of balancing the supply of and demand for jobs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Thank you, Mr. Delorme.

Mr. Thibeault.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to go back to the questioning I was talking about a little bit earlier. I'm not necessarily into FedNor, but in relation to the programs that are available through Industry Canada, I had the opportunity to meet with many of the mayors from northern Ontario, from the smaller communities to the urban centres—I consider my riding, which is Sudbury—and they were talking a lot about not being sure of the programs that are available through Industry Canada. Yes, we all know about FedNor.

How are we able to inform our mayors and our industries, the value-added industries, about the programs that are available through Industry Canada?

[Billy Hewett]

Good question.

We actually have some specific programs in that area, but having said that, it's also an area where we do hear from companies and from associations that just navigating the array of programs, whether they're Industry Canada's or others, is one of the challenges we face.

In particular, we run a couple of programs specific to this. One is Canada Business, which is a web-based program, largely, that attempts to navigate through, and it is targeted more at the small and medium-sized enterprise capacity. Then in terms of regulatory and setting up a business, there's a BizPaL side of things that's important but won't necessarily get at the array of programs. Those are two things that I would indicate right there. Contacting FedNor itself should also be another avenue.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Is there any way you can provide it to me? I'll give you an example.

There are certain companies and there are certain mayors out there—well, they're reeves. You own the company, you're front line, and you have one other person. To be able to access the Internet takes them offline, which reduces their production. You see how that's cyclical. There's a reeve, and they have a part-time staff person who's answering all of the calls from their constituents, answering tax questions, along those lines.

As MPs, is there something we can do, or maybe a program that you can provide us that we can share with these struggling businesses and the mayors?

[Billy Hewett]

Certainly if someone wants to make contact, either through a FedNor or directly, we attempt to do some navigation. Once again, it tends to be more web-based. We don't have offices spread throughout the country. We have some regional offices, which is where I would tend to point people towards.

If the FedNor and/or the regional office is seeming to be not sufficient, I'm at a bit of a loss where to go from there. But certainly if MPs contact us, or contact a regional office and then they contact us, we do what we can to respond and identify what might be worth exploring.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Great. I appreciate that.

Some have criticized the red tape sometimes in accessing these funds. Maybe you can talk a little bit about whether steps have been taken to make these funds a little more accessible.

[Billy Hewett]

We're certainly taking steps all the time, and in particular in the current climate, to try to improve and enhance the efficiency and the delivery of programming, whether it be funding arrangements or trying to reduce red tape on regulation, but to do that in a manner that also respects, if you will, our accountability to the taxpayer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

One minute.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

I love that. I always have a little more time, so I'm excited about that.

We talked about FedNor, because that's northern Ontario, but right across the country are there programs that could be used to a greater extent to help companies and communities get through this economic downturn?

[Billy Hewett]

That's one of the ironies, that in some cases there are unused funds in programs. And that's always unfortunate, particularly in times like these. That's why I say we're doing what we can to work through the front lines to try to bring greater focus, if you will, such that the moneys that are available are actually getting into the hands of those who need it.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Great.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Thank you, Mr. Hewett.

Members, we are approaching the time when we were going to suspend and go to future business. We have time for one more round--actually four more minutes. Is there somebody else who has a specific question or possibly a few questions, and is it the will of the committee that we just extend our time somewhat? I think we can finish off the future business rather quickly. Is it agreed, then, that we will go another 15 minutes? At 15 minutes, though, we will have to suspend. Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to move to the oil and gas sector, a specific area of interest to my constituents in Edmonton. One of the issues that gets brought up fairly regularly in our area is the impact the oil sands have, and maybe more broadly the oil and gas sector, not just in northern Alberta but across the country in terms of economic impact. Maybe you could speak to that for a moment in terms of jobs created across the country and in terms of economic impact.

[Billy Hewett]

It would be very difficult to give any specific or concrete answer to that. Generally speaking, yes, economic opportunity and growth in one part of the country has a positive benefit and spillover into other parts of the country. At the same time, commodity prices and energy costs--for example, in the manufacturing sector--can be a challenge that has to be dealt with. So the volatility and the need to be able to adjust is always there. Certainly over the last several years, as the oil sands were booming, the manufacturing sector was going through some significant adjustments in central parts of Canada. A number of firms...and certainly provincial governments were working with firms to try to help connect some of these companies in, so they could help meet some of the skills, some of the supply needs that were being drawn out into the oil sands area. So there are pros and cons, on balance. The oil sands are obviously a major contributor to the Canadian economy.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

That's an interesting point you make. Obviously when oil prices are high, that has some negative effects. Of course, there's nothing we can do about world oil prices in terms of those negative effects, but if we can recognize some of the benefit and spread that benefit around, that can be a good thing, especially in times--

[Billy Hewett]

It can be a good thing, and certainly the purchasing power of the Canadian dollar was enhanced during that period of time as well.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

There are some who would point out that during this global slowdown, and because of the impact of the global slowdown, there's been a cooling down of the industry in Alberta. You don't want to go too far, but it hasn't necessarily been all negative in terms of bringing down some of the costs of some of the projects. I know we've seen that in terms of some of the infrastructure projects that the governments are undertaking in Alberta. The costs have come down significantly because of the cost of labour coming down.

But moving forward, there may be a concern that when things get back to normal, the escalation will begin again. There are some who would say that's had an impact in the past on this value-added potential in Alberta because labour has been so difficult to come by. It has made it difficult to expand those value-added opportunities--while they may be very, very attractive in Alberta--because the cost of labour has been so high. They couldn't find the workers to actually add the value. I don't know if you want to comment on that.

[François Delorme]

I would have to agree with you completely. Earlier, I mentioned the technology and construction industries, but I could also have referred to the energy sector in Western Canada. That is what we are seeing. Despite a desire to increase production, the resources to hire more people cannot be found. This is one limitation that we contend with. It's not that businesses are unwilling to increase production, but merely that they do not have the means to accomplish this feat.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Thanks for that.

As we go through the study, I think it's important for us to keep an eye on those opportunities, because they will arise again, and we should, in my view, be transitioning towards them.

I guess with the last of my time here I will ask for any suggestions you have for us as we move forward in our study and decide what we're going to do. Have you any suggestions for areas or opportunities where we might focus in terms of that transition? Are there groups that we should ask to come before us to speak to those opportunities?

[Billy Hewett]

While the messages in our prepared remarks were, of necessity, focused on some of the serious challenges faced in the short term, you are absolutely right. In particular, when we talk about cyclical effects, whether they be in a resource-based or a commodity-based sector, or aerospace and others, once global demand comes back, opportunities will be there to be exploited. So, yes, we would hope that in your deliberations the committee will find a way to address both some of the short-term challenges and the longer-term opportunities.

If the committee would like, we certainly have available some of the statistics that go back a little further in history, which could fill the gap, if you will, between the manufacturing report that your committee put out, through to about six months ago, so you would at least have that. Once again, it's backwards looking, but—