Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Unfortunately, the softwood lumber deal didn't work out perfectly and we're playing a very serious ball game with our neighbours to the south. I would encourage you, Mr. Arsenault, to get together with your sister organizations across the country and bring the issue you raised concerning black liquor to the government. I think this is one that we definitely need to bring above the radar screen, because I don't think it is there at this point.
The first issue you brought up had to do with access to credit. I want to make sure I understand it. Those who are in a position to lend money view forestry as a high-risk industry at this point. You mentioned 8% to 11% premiums. For my clarification, is that the interest rate on a loan, or is that 8% to 11% above current standard rates?