Before Mr. Baily goes, I thought it would be a good opportunity....
Mr. Baily, in light of the number of refineries that have closed, and I know my colleague Dave Van Kesteren talked a little bit about what the future is, I've noted here--and you and I will probably dispute the question of cargo rates--that prices in Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal are exactly four to five cents a litre above the prices in the United States, which can't be good news for consumers. But the real issue here I think is one of how you would foresee, short of the municipal and economic or ecological and environmental concerns that are out there....
Is it true that the industry itself, certainly at the downstream, which is your section--not the upstream, which we can't hear from CAPP--has spent a considerable amount of time rationalizing, shutting down refineries, raising utilization rates, such that you would create an artificial situation where, even if demand were to start a little bit on an upward trend, we would find ourselves in a very scarce and tight market situation?