Evidence of meeting #46 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rural.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Independent
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay, it's a good exchange, but I think Mr. MacDonald wants to answer.
4:55 p.m.
Persona Cable
The reality is that the rules are set up so the incumbent doesn't have to do anything. There's no risk to him. The minute my customer switches, crosses the street and says he's going to deal with me, they get on the phone and say to him, don't switch and we'll give you a whole bunch of dollars off.
And you know what? I'm cool with it if that's the rule. As I said to you, I'm going short the stock and make a fortune off it. It's a stupid rule.
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
Momma's been protecting these guys for 100 years. We're only asking Momma to protect us for a few months, until 25% is satisfied. Then let's take the gloves off.
4:55 p.m.
Independent
André Arthur Independent Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Because of the rule that the CRTC invented to protect you and that the minister doesn't seem to include in his proposition, you feel a little bit left alone on the street corner. Is that the way I should understand it?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
Yes, we do; we do feel left alone.
4:55 p.m.
Independent
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Mr. Chair, I won't take too long. With the indulgence of the committee, I will allow you a question at the end. I understand that you may have one.
I wanted to clarify for Mr. Carrie the importance of the policy that he related to you with regard to long distance. I find it rather ironic. In 1988, resellers were allowed to get into long distance. In 1992, facilities-based companies were allowed to come in. In 1997, five years later, the rate was deregulated. After that, the incumbents' shares dropped about 70%. There was no government interference. This was driven by the CRTC. This model is one that the government is now clearly rejecting.
It's the very essence of what I'm saying. The CRTC was successful in getting long-distance competition, but they're not prepared to allow the same plan to work for local rates.
Let me ask you this question. How are you going to tell your consumers this if this plan goes unamended, done by order in council, not by Parliament? If this committee is not successful in getting the message out, what is the message you now have to give to your consumers, given what you've described to us as clearly being a rather dire consequence?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
My first message would be that if you want competition, you should call your local member of Parliament so that we can get some sanity back into the process of rolling out a competitive environment.
4:55 p.m.
President, Distributel
The message is simply one of competition first, deregulation next. That's what we need. Why deregulate before you have competition? There's no benefit to consumers.
4:55 p.m.
Persona Cable
Or if you really want to be very adverse, move to urban Canada and you'll be well served.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I would only suggest—and I'm hoping I'm wrong—that you may have an election in which you're able to make that decision before April 6. If that's not the case, we'll do what we can.
Chair, I want to yield to you at this point.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you, Mr. McTeague.
I want to thank you all for coming in. It's been a very interesting exchange. I've certainly enjoyed it. I do have one question, though.
With the exception of Mr. Ignacy, what I'm hearing from you is that you certainly prefer the 25% market test as compared to the test the minister is proposing. There's something I don't understand, though. The market test is close to being achieved in some sectors. I think the only one the CRTC mentioned as having been achieved by the end of 2005 or in 2006 was Halifax. Telus mentioned that Shaw has 30% in the Fort McMurray area, which is certainly rural Alberta, so that may in fact be deregulated.
If the 25% market test, which you've pointed to as being the one that should be followed, is met by Telus having 70% and Shaw having 30% of the market, I'm not sure how that helps your companies. Explain to me how the 25% market test helps you if it's basically a duopoly between Telus and Shaw, or between Bell and Rogers.
February 21st, 2007 / 4:55 p.m.
Persona Cable
It's a market by market test. As Mr. Deane has suggested, at 25% we know we have a sustainable business. As he says, the gloves are then off, the game's on, and whoever wins, wins. That's a wholly different exercise from the rules now.
The rules now, for whatever reason that I can't even figure out, protect the incumbent. I don't know what Bell has done to deserve such great treatment from you guys. It's just incredible.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Can I just clarify? In the Sudbury area, if you actually had a situation in which 75% belonged to Bell and 25% belonged to Rogers, how is your company benefiting by it?
5 p.m.
Persona Cable
If I have 25% of the market share in Sudbury, which has 50,000 homes, to use round numbers, I have a lot of customers and I'm in business.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. What I'm saying is that if the 25% market test is followed but it's basically a duopoly between a very large telephone company and a very large cable company, both with separate infrastructure systems, how does that help you?
5 p.m.
Persona Cable
It doesn't help me, it helps the customer. You don't need to worry about me. I'm a business. Canadians don't care about me. Canadians care about a better rate and better service. They won't get it if I'm not there.
5 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Access Communications Co-operative Limited
If I could try that, I don't think Rogers will be in Sudbury.
The only realistic facilities-based competitor in North Battleford, Saskatchewan, is Access Communications. We're the only other ones with the facilities and infrastructure that allow us to offer facilities-based competition. Shaw and Rogers aren't going to be there, at least not with facilities-based competition. They'll certainly be there maybe with wireless competition, and that's fine.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
According to these figures, Shaw was at less than 9% in some figures. This year, they're in areas like Medicine Hat and Lethbridge. They're getting into the smaller communities.