Industry Committee on March 28th, 2007

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dan, when we started out in this process, we called witnesses. I think it was on February 15, and correct me if I'm wrong. At that point, the Bloc came with proposals or with serious concerns. At that time, we were ready to do this. Then the Liberal Party introduced a motion to stop the minister's order. Am I not correct?

Up to that point, we were operating in good faith. We wanted to create or produce a report to present to the minister. I think the chair has also made it clear at this point that we will pick up where we left off.

I think it was February 15, but I'm not sure of the date.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

You're off on the date.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

At any rate, at that point it was the consensus of the whole committee to create a report, and we're not budging from that. But we want a commitment from this committee and from the members opposite that we're going to do it. We're going to take a look at this excellent report created by our analysts and go over it step by step.

I would suspect, Chair, that at that time the revelations of the letter would start to come out.

What's wrong with creating a report that we don't necessarily agree on? It's the function of a committee to give input.

This has become absolutely crazy. I can't understand why the motion can't be withdrawn. You're saying that we're not operating in good faith.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

That's not the point. The point is that you cannot negotiate without knowing what you're negotiating about. It's a very simple concept. I know you understand it.

But you're doing your job and dragging at the puck. That's fine, but let's be honest about this.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Van Kesteren, do you have anything further?

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Mr. Chair, do you want to respond to that?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

On a point of order, there was a question in which he purported to be confused on dates.

Mr. Van Kesteren, I only want to point out for the record that the day of Mr. Byrne's motion was in fact March 7. If I'm not mistaken, it was the last day on which we sat before the two-week break.

Obviously the reason for that was it was very clear from almost every witness, with the exception of the two dates that we have today, Monday and of course the 21st and the 19th, and we agreed that we would hold off on this motion.

For the record, Mr. Van Kesteren, you've asked me a question. Allow me to point out that we've provided you with what we should have.

All we're debating right now is that your government is ill-prepared to tell us which of the recommendations you accept, which we understand to be the majority. Clearly, by that declaration, your gesture of good will, without telling us what it is, is that you accept three-quarters of the problems we've raised. I think we've gone a long way, but the problem is you're not telling us which ones they are.

It's why we have the motion, which we agree with. Logically, if you have nine of twelve that you agree with, then you must agree there is need for amendment.

Therefore, I would suggest that apart from having your dates wrong, you may want to consider the fact that we all agree, one way or another, whether we like it or not, this thing needs improvement. On how we get there, it's really up to you to declare what those nine recommendations are. We're prepared to hear those.

There's a good chance that we might drop the motion, but it requires a bit of good will on your behalf. We've provided you with the information that we want, and we want to hear that. If you're not prepared to do it, then we'll be here all night, or until the cows come home.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Van Kesteren, are you finished? Can I go to Mr. Carrie?

Mr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

After listening to Mr. McTeague, I think we all agree. And we want a report. We want to negotiate. So I'm asking that you drop the motion. Then we can move ahead with the report. I'll support the letter coming forward, and we can get started on this thing.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

On a point of order, Mr. McTeague.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

If the parliamentary secretary is offering us.... He's had two days to tell us what he wants to provide to us. If we drop that motion, the motion is gone, not to be returned. And of course we wind up in the unfortunate situation of giving a green light and carte blanche to the minister's proposal on April 6.

It's probably going to proceed anyway, Mr. Chairman, but we want to make sure that, like the Conservatives, we recognize that as it stands it's not acceptable. It is going to vandalize the telecom industry from a local perspective. And unless you're prepared to tell us which nine of the twelve recommendations we've made as an opposition are acceptable to you, I'm not prepared to accept a pig in a poke.

Come forth. You could have done so privately, Mr. Carrie. I asked you to speak to my industry critic, Mr. Brison, and to Mr. Crête. We were waiting for that yesterday. And I realize there are a lot of things to do in 48 hours, but coming to us and saying that you've got it, but you don't want us to criticize you.... I want to make sure this works well.

If you're not prepared to tell us what--and that's the price you're prepared to make--then, Mr. Chairman, we'll just continue this discussion about where we differ in terms of our opinions. At the end of this, we expect that the chair, consistent with this motion, will require the minister to report that the minister withdraws the order varying telecom decision 2006 and table in Parliament a comprehensive package of policies, statutory and regulatory forms to modernize the telecommunication services industry.

Mr. Carrie, provide us with the nine, and there's probably a good chance we can end this very quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Carrie, do you want to respond to that?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

As I said, I think we want the opposition to be clear. Do they want a report? We want a report. We don't want a motion. So I'll leave it in the hands of the chair. Does the opposition want to negotiate a report, or do they want a motion? Which way do they want to go on this?

As I said, the minister is not rushing here. We've had a year to move forward. We've only had 48 hours with these things. I think we've come forward pretty well.

And as I say in good faith, we want to sit down, we want a report. We don't want a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'm advised, as we are debating the motion, that the motion has been accepted in order. The motion is being debated. The motion can only be withdrawn by unanimous consent. So if it is the will of the committee to do so, it would have to do so through unanimous consent, and then decide to do a report.

Is there unanimous consent to withdraw the motion? No?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

There are no other speakers. Just call the question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I have Mr. Byrne and then I have Mr. Shipley.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

I have nothing further to add.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Nothing further? Okay.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I thought you were asking on the vote. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Shipley.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Chair, the list was exhausted; the question should be called now.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Masse, you know full well that members can add their names to a speaking list.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

We can't just wait around until—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Masse, you're a very experienced member—