I would just say, Mr. Van Kesteren, that if you want to talk to members, you can always signal to a member, go to the back of the room, and have a discussion. And I would strongly encourage that.
I would also say that it makes it a lot easier on the chair when everybody gets along. This is not really a situation I desire. I would just make that clear to everybody.
Mr. Shipley, and then Mr. McTeague.