Evidence of meeting #56 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was problem.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate, Department of Health
That's a good question.
As I said in my remarks, the regulations are 50 years old.
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate, Department of Health
We're moving. We're moving forward on that. It's really the tools we need to give to our inspectors, a better suite of tools to be able to do their job.
We're looking at the legislative side and we're looking at the non-legislative side as well. On the non-legislative side, we're doing some initiatives. We're looking at what makes industry comply and what a deterrence is. Is a deterrence the fact that we would post a warning letter on a website? Is that something that would deter an industry? Is a ticket a deterrence? Is going to a prosecution a deterrence? We're taking a look at some analysis and some—
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate, Department of Health
Have we changed one of the regulations?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate, Department of Health
No. They're coming in through a suite. It has to come in.... It's definitely a priority, and we're doing a lot of work on that area.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
You mentioned, too, that prosecutions are very resource-intensive. Have there been any prosecutions?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate, Department of Health
Yes.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate, Department of Health
I would say that in the last couple of years we've probably had five or six. We're taking a look at that because we've had some success and some lack of success. We're taking a look at whether they are an effective tool and at the resources it takes to actually do a prosecution, because after all that work, the penalties we have right now are $500.
I'm just saying that's how old the regulations are.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Thank you very much.
I recently attended a trade show in Oshawa, where I'm from. It was plumbers and some electricians. They mentioned that they're having a problem because they're getting these products that are CSA-approved, and sometimes they're very good. They don't even know if they are the real thing or not.
I recognize that tracking this thing is very difficult, but in your estimation, is Canada a net importer or net exporter of counterfeit and pirated goods? Is there any data to let us know how we're doing in that regard?
4:30 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
We don't have hard data. We do have some anecdotal information that indicates about 80% of the counterfeit goods in Canada are imported, primarily from countries such as China. Part of the reason is that many of these take a factory to produce. Generally what you'll see produced in Canada are things like DVDs, CDs, and sometimes pharmaceuticals, because all you basically need is a powder and a pill press. You'll see items that are easy to produce done here, but articles like these in front of me are produced outside the country.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Do you know where they're going? When Canadian counterfeiters export, do you know where those products are going most of the time?
4:30 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
Canadian counterfeiters mostly export DVDs and CDs and so on, as I mentioned. They're exported through the Internet; they're being sold through the Internet.
4:35 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
They could be going anywhere, yes.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
To what extent do you think organized crime is involved in Canada, or are these mostly mom-and-pop operations?
4:35 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
It's not mom and pop for the most part, because you need a network to distribute these things. The only thing you would see produced very easily by one or two people would be something like DVDs or CDs. You can do that. If you have 100 burners, for example, you can put them in a room and start burning copies and selling them across the Internet.
For anything else you're going to need a network. You'll need a factory in some cases, and wholesalers and the whole organization that goes with that. We have actually found—in some cases, at least—that almost all the organized crime groups in Canada are involved in this now.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Would you be able to explain what the Canadian government is doing to help educate Canadians and consumers about this problem? I think if we can shut down some of the demand, that would be helpful as well. Are there things we're doing right now?
4:35 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
I can answer some of that. We have started a public awareness campaign working with the private sector. We've produced four different posters that are going up at airports and bus stops and so on. They've been distributed across the country over recent months. We've done a lot of media interviews. It has been keeping our branch very busy.
We've worked with Health Canada. They've put out public health advisories on things like counterfeit Tamiflu, for example, and on the counterfeit batteries. They'll put them on the website so that the public is aware, and we've done all kinds of presentations to different groups, so I think public awareness is being raised.
The problem is that the public, most of the time, don't know that it's counterfeit. You can give them some indicators, but you can't stop them from buying electrical cords or circuit breakers or batteries. It's very hard to shut off that side of the demand.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
As I mentioned, I was amazed to hear the tradespeople at this trade show saying how big a problem this is becoming. They're concerned. It just spreads out. There are the liabilities issues for them. I think we all agree we have to do something quickly.
Have we prioritized? What's the most important thing to do first?
4:35 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
That's part of the reason for the working group. We've got so many government departments involved that we have to determine what we need in terms of legislation and resources.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Could you provide the committee with recent stats on the number of charges laid for IP crimes under the Criminal Code and the Copyright Act and the number of successful prosecutions? Do you have those?
4:35 p.m.
Supt Ken Hansen
I know that overall in 2005 there were about 700 charges laid, using both the Criminal Code and the Copyright Act. I didn't bring the breakdown with me and I can't recall exactly offhand. There were also some charges laid by police force jurisdiction that wouldn't be included in those statistics. Those are only RCMP.