Evidence of meeting #56 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was problem.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Supt Ken Hansen
The penalties are very low. It's very rare that you'll see jail time. I don't think I've ever seen a case in which somebody got more than a year.
Supt Ken Hansen
I can't recall a single case that got more than a year, even on multiple charges.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Does that mean they actually served more than a year, or was the sentence a year?
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
So it could be a couple of months at the most and a slap on the wrist?
Supt Ken Hansen
Most of the time it's a fine. We've sometimes seen $200,000 or $300,000 fines with repeat offenders--but again, it's not a deterrent, because they're making more money than this.
Conservative
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the delegations for coming here today.
I'm sorry if I'm coming and going. I'm handling two things at once here.
My first question is to Mr. Hansen. I think you identified one of the first things when you raised the electrical cord. How does the ordinary consumer even have the choice of knowing whether they're purchasing something that's a knock-off? Have any consumers' rights groups or any other partners come forward? There are a couple of issues that come to hand right off the bat. I mean, that's a good example of liability. Electrical cords are very dangerous if they're not designed and used properly. Have there been any partners in consumers' rights organizations in this attempt?
Supt Ken Hansen
I'm not familiar with any in consumers' rights. We have worked with the private sector—the Canadian Anti-Counterfeiting Network and several other companies, including the 2010 Olympic committee, etc.—to raise awareness. Through our website and the posters, we're trying to educate the public, but it's very difficult; I've been dealing with this for quite a while and sometimes I can't tell. Sometimes even the manufacturer can't tell without analyzing.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Maybe I'll turn this across to everyone in the panel here. Has there been a particular sector, such as the dollar store, for example? I don't want to cast a perception that they might be doing something, but I know if I go there I see certain items that I'm at least more generally suspicious of than at other times that they can actually be produced there. What happens in terms of the pressure on them? Has there been an identifiable retail store or outlet in Canada that has been a perpetual problem?
Supt Ken Hansen
Probably the three highest risks are flea markets, the Internet, and discount stores. I won't mention a dollar store by name, but I'll say discount stores. Part of the problem is that 10 years ago, that's the only place you would have seen these. Now we see these in major stores and in major chains in some cases. It's less frequent in major chains, obviously—there's less risk—but we have seen them.
These, for example, have been found in eight hospitals in Quebec and one in Ontario so far.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
How do you even—? I mean, you have professionals who can't distinguish them.
Supt Ken Hansen
They can't distinguish it from the exterior.
Part of the problem with these is that they don't trip when they're supposed to, or they trip too soon. That's how it was identified. It was in an intensive care unit and it kept tripping. An electrician looked at it, said it was faulty, and sent it back to the manufacturer; the manufacturer said no, it was not faulty, it was counterfeit.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Have any cases we know of led to death or injury, cases in which we can actually track down the original distributor, put some culpability on them, and make an example of them? Everything is serious, but obviously injury or loss of life is something that is at the farthest end of all of this. Has there been any type of example that we could make of a supplier? Mr. Carrie mentioned the CSA, and he's absolutely right. I hear that as well. Does it mean we have to fix our CSA branding in some capacity?
Supt Ken Hansen
No. That is what is counterfeit on this—the CSA brand, plus “Westinghouse”.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
That's a very dangerous situation. It affects Canadian patients. Can we not track where it came from and go after them?
Supt Ken Hansen
That's the individual, yes. When I said “individual”, I meant the person who was making it.
