I think it's important to distinguish between different types of issues, because depending on the type of product, there may be different ways to try to obtain the data. For example, in the camcording area there are these wild numbers that, if true, mean the total's going to amount to about 500% of all global camcording being attributed to a series of places. The numbers just don't add up.
One independent study on camcording that was conducted by AT&T Labs Inc. several years ago found that 80% of all pirated DVDs are actually sourced internally. They're in screener jobs that the industry itself has somehow lost; someone inside has released it out, and then it gets released onto the Internet and elsewhere, so in fact camcording was a tiny fraction of the overall sources. They did that by going online and actually taking a look, because you can tell the difference between a screener copy and a camcorded version.
In some areas I think there is the prospect of doing some fairly good data if we get some independent researchers on the job. In other areas—say, counterfeit pharmaceuticals and the like—I'd suggest we could engage in some pretty good sampling, both for some of the online pharmaceutical industries as well as even some offline pharmaceutical companies. We could try to obtain a sample. Presumably some forms of pharmaceuticals are more likely to be counterfeited than others, so we can probably get a pretty good sense and on that basis look at overall pay and the like.
But none of that has happened to date. All we deal with are these horror stories that unquestionably attract our attention.
In many respects it's not about whether there's a social benefit to counterfeiting. Let's be clear: I don't think there is a social benefit to counterfeiting here, but when you have people coming before you to say we ought to throw lots more resources into law enforcement or into border enforcement, it means taking resources away from something else. I think we need to be pretty darn sure we have a serious enough problem to merit the allocation of those public resources for essentially the private benefit, in many instances, of the companies that are being affected by having their clothes knocked off.