I don't want to give you the impression that our companies are facing tough times. I do want to impress upon you that a number of public policy decisions are placing strains on the refining sector in this country. And let's make a distinction between upstream and downstream. We represent the downstream. That's when the oil arrives at the refinery, to the point where it goes to the retail station.
That has not been a profitable business for a very long time. If you look at historical data, it was the losing end of the business for quite a while. So I come back to you that at one point, a profit of 5¢ a litre.... Admittedly, that's a lot of litres, but $5 million is also a lot of money to do desulphurization, which doesn't get you either an extra cent or an extra litre of gasoline. They're both good purposes. The pollution requirement to lower sulphur is an excellent public policy decision, and we implemented it, but it does cost money.
As for the price fluctuations, Madame, there's no question that in the summer months there is an increase in demand for motor gasoline. There are only so many refineries in Canada and the United States. There is only so much product that can come in from Europe to increase the supply that is available. In the absence of more supply flexibility, you're going to see price movements.
This is not something we control. It's something our members do a pretty good job at, which pays off in dividends to the shareholders. But the refining sector—and I do underline in particular refining as opposed to the entire spectrum of activities—has not been a particularly profitable industry. It's only been that in the last couple of years.