Industry Committee on March 6th, 2008

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, on the same point of order, we're here to discuss the role of the national science advisor and Dr. Carty's input as a citizen as well as someone with significant expertise as a public servant in this area as to what that role ought to be. He's been extremely constructive. He has proposed that the role continue, along with a science and technology innovation council, not as either/or. He has been very constructive, and I cannot understand why we are engaged in a smear campaign of a public servant.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Let me explain, sir, on your point of order.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

For instance, I suspect most members of Parliament travel by the--

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You go on and on and on. Nobody will be—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

One at a time.

Mr. Brison has the floor for now.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I expect that most members of Parliament have travel budgets that exceed $100,000 per year. We have letters from Minister Prentice here referring to the international travel and the work Dr. Carty has done and the accomplishments on behalf of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, Mr. Brison, let—

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Not only is it intellectually dishonest, it is not consistent with the mandate.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Brison, you have made your point.

Mr. Arthur, respond on the same point of order.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Brison says we are here to analyze the role of the national science advisor. That's exactly what I'm doing, except that I've chosen to take the angle of his role as an administrator of public funds, which he is.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'm going to rule on this.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

You're not regular--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

No, Mr. Brison, the chair has the floor.

Monsieur Arthur, on this issue, I'll repeat again what the motion actually says: “That the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology study the Government of Canada's decision to phase out the position of National Science Advisor.” This is related to Dr. Carty as the national science advisor. Now, if there is an issue with his expenses as the national science advisor, that is relevant to the motion.

With respect to your questions, you're really testing the bounds of relevance unless you relate them to his position as the national science advisor.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Allow me to proceed then.

It is quite evident, Dr. Carty, that your organization and your functions were not properly funded from the start. You didn't get enough money, you didn't get enough staff, and that has nothing to do with the change of government. It was like that from the start.

Yet on October 15, 2004, you hosted a lunch for deputy ministers, for which you charged $919.02. You did the same later and charged $1,200.35. On November 24, 2004, it's $1,487.50 that you charged to your—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

On a point of order, Monsieur Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman. The same thing is happening again. The purpose of today's meeting is not to examine spending or explore what happened here from a financial perspective.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

One at a time.

Monsieur Arthur, is this related to Dr. Carty with respect to his time as national science advisor?

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Yes, as the national science advisor he hosted lunches for deputy ministers, and he paid for those lunches.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

How many deputy ministers—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Brison, you don't have the floor.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

My question was coming up.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

If it is related to Dr. Carty's time as national science advisor, then I'm going to allow it. If it's related to expenses when he was head of the NRC, then I will not allow it. If it is expenses in his time as national science advisor, I will allow the question.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

On January 24, 2005, there was $1,340.40. On October 13, 2005, there was $1,465. If you have an underfunded situation, why would you pay for lunches for deputy ministers?

[Dr. Arthur Carty]

Can I answer that question?

I mentioned earlier that I had created two committees, as national science advisor. One was to bring together the presidents of councils and foundations and to have them discuss relevant matters of concern to them. The other group was a group of deputy ministers of science-based departments and agencies. I had permission from the clerk to do this, to bring them together again to discuss common interests, horizontal collaborations, how we could better work together. In fact, most of those dinners were held at night because that was the only time we could find deputy ministers available, because they were very busy during the day.

So that was good value for money, Mr. Chairman. The others can be seen in exactly the same light.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Arthur, you have two minutes.