Industry Committee on May 6th, 2008

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

You've mentioned, sir, that we've spent $9.7 billion annually on S and T. I know that isn't directly funnelled into your organization or the others, but there's an enormous amount of money being spent. Should we increase that, or are we not divvying that up in a proper manner?

[Gary Corbett]

I'm not sure if your figure of $9.7 billion is correct. It's more like $26 billion. If you look at the sources, the university to the private sector--tax breaks to the private sector--and the government, it's a much bigger number. I think $9.6 billion is just the intramural in terms of government to science-based departments and agencies. But the balance is all wrong; the balance is off. What has happened is, if it's to be considered a triangle, three legs of a stool, where funding has gone to universities, the private sector through tax breaks, and intramural government science, the funding has shifted between the other two. So one leg of the stool is extremely short. You can't have a robust innovation system without all three of those points. That's really what the problem is.

As a matter of fact, it's about balancing those funds and bringing the A-base back into the science-based departments and agencies within the federal government, the intramural system.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Corbett.

We'll go to Monsieur André. Bienvenue.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Good day, sir. I am pleased to be here with you this morning. I do have several brief questions for you. I see that your mandate encompasses research in a number of fields, including aerospace, biotechnology, construction engineering, information and communications technology and the manufacturing sector. What area of the manufacturing sector do you target the most with your research activities?

[Pierre Coulombe]

Thank you for that question. Several of the NRC's programs target the manufacturing sector. You mentioned the aerospace industry. This is a major manufacturing sector in Canada. Without question, the NRC is Canada's primary research institute and it assists Canada's aerospace industry in various ways. It is also Canada's largest research institute.

We also provide support to the manufacturing sector through our work on state-of-the-art materials. These materials are important manufacturing inputs. With the help of our research facility in Boucherville, we support the development of the manufacturing sector by recommending greener, more sustainable and more cost-effective materials for use in the manufacturing process. Similarly, we provide support to the automobile sector by developing state-of-the-art materials and production methods.

So then, the NRC supports the manufacturing sector is a variety of ways. It is involved in the development of efficient, sustainable and economical fuel cell-powered technology that will benefit the aerospace , automobile and construction industries.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Are you presently supporting research in those sectors hardest hit by globalization, such as the textiles and furniture industries that are experiencing a downturn? Do you do any research in an effort to provide more support to these sectors? Should you be getting closer to companies working in these sectors to help them become more competitive?

[Pierre Coulombe]

The answer is no. The NRC does not have any specific activities that target the textile industry or the other sectors that you mentioned. When we developed our last strategic plan, we used three main criteria to identify nine key economic sectors in Canada. Firstly, the sector must be important to Canada. Secondly, R&D must be critically important to development in this sector. Thirdly, the NRC must be in a position to make a significant contribution to this sector.

The sector retained must satisfy all three criteria. In total, nine sectors were identified— and you mentioned a few of them—:aerospace, automobile, agriculture, biopharmaceuticals, communication and information technologies, electronics, construction, manufacturing and materials.

We are in the process of developing multiple partner research programs targeting these sectors with a view to supporting their R&D efforts. However, we realize that there are some sectors in which the NRC cannot play a major role. Often, we find that research may not play an important role in a particular sector, such as the financial sector which is not supported by our activities. Or, we find that other stakeholders are better positioned than the NRC to provide support to certain sectors.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Right now, we really need to do some research and find ways of improving the productivity of the manufacturing sector and of companies that work in this area. This is not one of the current aims of the NRC. You do not concern yourself with this.

[Pierre Coulombe]

We are working to develop better manufacturing technologies for the automobile, aeronautics and aerospace, construction and electronics sectors. Our activities do not, however, target the textiles industry. This does not mean, though, that if a textile company came to the NRC for help with a particular problem, we would not be able to use our technologies and expertise to lend them some assistance.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

However, this is not one of the nine priority sectors that you have identified.

[Pierre Coulombe]

The textiles sector was not identified as one of our priority sectors.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

And the furniture sector...

[Pierre Coulombe]

It was not identified as a priority sector either.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

No?

[Pierre Coulombe]

No, because again, there are, no doubt, other players in Canada who have a more clearly defined mandate to provide support to these sectors.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have time for one last question, but please keep it short.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You talked about other players. In fact there are a number of other players. The federal government funds many different associations involved in research. Are there too many players in the research field? Could there be fewer of them? Could research activities be restructured or better organized?

[Pierre Coulombe]

I do not believe that Canada suffers from a surfeit of players in the field of science, technology and innovation. I think there is room for even more researchers. Of course, the higher the number of players, the greater the effort that must be made to develop partnerships with them to avoid unnecessary duplication. The NRC has a long history of partnerships with stakeholders who can help it to promote innovation in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci, monsieur André.

Next is Monsieur Arthur.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Corbett, I understand that being a witness in front of a parliamentary committee is not exactly the right setting to establish nuances, but your description of the lack of long-term commitment, proper funding, and foresight in science presents a dim view of a scientific career in the federal government. Let's say there's a young scientist or engineer, very brilliant, very dynamic, with a marvellous future. Why would such a person decide to become a public servant? Is the government institution a bottom-feeder in the talent pool?

[Gary Corbett]

That's a good question. I'll defer to the honourable member Mark Eyking, who said, “My passion gets out in front of me.”

I'm so frustrated. For 10 years I've been frustrated with this, and perhaps that's coming out. There is a crisis, and there is a dim picture, and we're glad that this committee is looking at it. We need to do something. This country needs to do something fast.

No, they're not the bottom feeders. They're brilliant people, but they're not getting the resources they need to do what this country has asked of them.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Why would they go to your office and work if they have poor conditions? Are we condemned to hire mediocre people because the right people have gone somewhere else?

[Gary Corbett]

We haven't hired anybody new in a long, long time, and that's the problem. We don't have the resources to hire new people, because there's no long-term commitment to funding. They would come if we committed to a long-term future for them, but this government is not committed to that.

[André Arthur, Independent, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Were any of your people recruited by other organizations or universities?

[Gary Corbett]

The average age of a researcher is 47 years old.