Well, there are two elements. One is that if you increase it for the councils, you should at least increase the indirect costs to cover that increment. At the 25% level, that's an easy bit of math.
The other piece is that the real costs to us are between 40% and 50%. The universities and AUCC have been pushing for a long time to move that 25% to 40%, and then we'd be closer to recovering what it actually costs to do the research.
Right now, out of our pocket, out of our endowment, and from what we steal from our teaching—we get it from anywhere we can—we have to put the 15% or 20% that we don't get into each research project. It costs us money to do research. After a while you start saying, well, don't answer any more, because we can't afford it. We can't afford to run some of the buildings that we have from CFI funds. The carrying costs and the indirect costs are major things for the universities.