Perhaps I could try to ease this logjam here.
I think maybe part of the confusion is that we don't have full attendance at committee today. The fifth member, the independent member, is not here today. He would not substitute in for one of our Conservative members right now. I just give that to the committee as a point of fact. If you're looking at the table right now, you might think that the independent is substituting in for one of the four members here.
Mr. Simms.