Evidence of meeting #48 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Coleen Volk  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Industry Sector, Department of Industry
Marie-Josée Thivierge  Assistant Deputy Minister, Small Business and Marketplace Services, Department of Industry
John Connell  Director General, Small Business and Tourism Branch, Department of Industry
Pierre Coulombe  President, National Research Council Canada
Pat Mortimer  Vice-President, Technology and Industry Support, National Research Council Canada
Patrick Hurens  Director, Service Industries Directorate, Department of Industry

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Anthony Rota

Order, please.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

This is our 48th meeting, and pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the recent economic performance of small and medium-sized enterprises in Canada.

If you look at your orders of the day, you'll find that from 3:30 to 4:30 we'll have the Honourable Minister, Diane Ablonczy, Minister of State, Small Business and Tourism, and witnesses

Marie-Josée Thivierge, Assistant Deputy Minister, Small Business and Marketplace Services;

Coleen Volk, associate assistant deputy minister, industry sector; John Connell, director general, small business and tourism branch; and Patrick Hurens, director of service industries directorate. Then from 4:30 to 5:30 we'll continue with the National Research Council.

For now, what we'll do is open it up to our witnesses. It'll be a 10-minute presentation, if you like, and we'll continue with questions afterwards.

We'll begin with Minister Ablonczy. Thank you for being here today.

3:35 p.m.

Calgary Nose Hill Alberta

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy ConservativeMinister of State (Small Business and Tourism)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Congratulations on taking charge of this important study. I congratulate the committee on doing this study of small business services. It's an area near and dear to my heart, so of course I was very pleased that you're taking the time to do this study.

I have a few remarks, and I may be telling you things you already know, but they're worth going over again in order to emphasize how important this sector is.

In addition to the services sector, which is about 75% of small businesses, I want to give you an overview of the 30,000 street views, so to speak.

The current state of small business in Canada is a good place to start. I don't think it's any secret to you that small business is the backbone of our economy. In fact, they account for 98% of businesses in our country, which is enormous. They employ one in every six Canadians. Here's a very interesting statistic: on average, over 350 new small businesses are started each day in Canada.

Of course, we're all aware that the last year has been a turbulent one for the global economy, but small businesses, although they've encountered some significant challenges, have really been successful in turning these challenges into opportunities. In fact, colleagues, our economic slump would have been far worse without the performance they have turned in.

Consider this. Over the 12 months ending in October of this year, small business employment fell by less than 2%. That's compared with employment in large firms, which fell by more than 10%. It's fair to say, therefore, that the small business sector has out-performed the rest of the business economy.

I was pleased to learn that you had representatives from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business before you last week. I quote Ted Mallett, who said to you:

What we've found over the years is that the small-business sector has been one of the most important stabilizers in the Canadian economy over time from a macro basis.

The CFIB member survey shows that SME business confidence remains strong, and a small business report by CIBC Economics in October, only a couple of months ago, tells a similar story. I quote from that report:

Against all odds Canadian small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) were not only able to endure the recent recession with less damage than in any other postwar recession, but also to outperform their larger, more established, peers.

Canada has a lot going for it, colleagues, when it comes to starting and growing a business. Compared with other countries--and that includes European countries and the U.S.--our birth rate of new firms is higher than the business death rate. That's always a good thing. That really means that our pool of entrepreneurial potential is constantly being replenished. The survival rate of new firms is very strong, and what's especially interesting is that the proportion of firms that experience high growth is also reasonably strong.

I'm sure you're wondering where government fits into all this, because you are part of law making and policy making. What government really is here to do is to ensure that the conditions are right for businesses to start, to prosper, and to grow. The role of government is to understand small business needs and to create a positive business environment. Businesses, in other words, are the lead economic actors. We merely play a supporting role.

How has government delivered recently in this way?

As you know, support for SMEs was a large part of the government's economic action plan that was designed to stimulate our economy. This was important and proper because SMEs are a big part of our economy. There were several measures to help small businesses as they lead Canada into recovery. The plan lowers taxes, cuts red tape, and increases access to financing, which is a huge issue for small businesses. All of that provides small businesses with the tools necessary to fuel economic growth and job creation all across the country.

I want to expand on this a bit. The reduction of taxes was a top priority. The small business tax rate was lowered to 11%. It had been 12%. The business income threshold at which a business would pay the small business rate is now 11%. It used to be $300,000, and it has now gone up to $500,000. This allows small business to keep more of their hard-earned money, which they can use to reinvest and to grow their business.

We also increased the life-time capital gains exemption for small business owners from half a million dollars to three-quarters of a million dollars. That was the first time this had been raised since 1988, so it was long overdue, especially in the view of small business.

We've also been working hard to cut red tape, and we're proud that in March we were able to announce that the goal of reducing the paper burden by 20% had been reached. This was achieved, colleagues, by listening attentively to small business. In fact, the CFIB, which represents small business, was a co-chair of the paper burden reduction committee. It was an advisory committee made up of both the private and public sectors. It's an important achievement, but I view it as just a start. We can't rest on our laurels. We will continue to look for ways to reduce the paper burden on the small business sector.

There are also some exciting new services such as BizPal and the new Canada Business network. These tools help entrepreneurs to start their business, to grow their business. We also are ensuring that remittance of corporate taxes is now done annually or quarterly, instead of monthly, which saves a lot of time and effort for small business. We raised the maximum amount of loans under the Canada small business financing program from $250,000 to $350,000, and to half a million for real property.

Also, we know that we need to start young businesspeople, young entrepreneurs, off on the right foot if they're going to become the entrepreneurial leaders of tomorrow, so under the economic action plan we invested $10 million in the Canadian Youth Business Foundation. That's a tremendous agency. If you haven't talked to them, it would be worthwhile having the CYBF come in to tell you about their mentoring and support programs for the next generation of entrepreneurs. It's an inspiring success story.

I also know that you heard from the president of the Business Development Bank of Canada, who works closely with small business clients, provides them with a wide range of financing tools, and offers advice on productivity enhancements and other business strategies. As part of the economic action plan, a lot more funding was allocated to the BDC and the EDC, Export Development Canada, to support small business activity and growth.

I also want to point out that we are also assisting SMEs with their labour needs. The Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development recently introduced legislation to provide employment insurance benefits to the self-employed, who were previously unable to participate in the EI program.

Just this week, there was a new agreement announced on foreign credential recognition. This is to ensure that foreign qualifications are assessed and recognized in a timely manner and to enable newcomers to maximize their talents and their participation in our small business sector and in other sectors of the economy. It also allows business to find the skilled labour they need to grow their business. We want these initiatives to go ahead.

Mr. Chairman, I could go on at length about the support for small business, but I prefer to focus on the questions that are of most interest to my colleagues.

I want to talk a bit, though, about the code of conduct for the Canadian credit and debit card industry, because I know all of us have been hearing quite a bit about that from small business. The concerns that were raised were folded into this code consultation, which is taking place right now. We want to make sure the code does help small businesses and merchants to ensure fairer practices and accountability and to encourage choice and competition.

So, monsieur le président, our SMEs are leading Canada into growth and clearing the way for positive economic times. Our government is fully committed to helping them grow and prosper.

To speak specifically for just a moment about the services sector, because that's the focus of your study, all of my remarks about SMEs apply fully to the services sector. Our economy is increasingly a services sector. As I mentioned, about 70% of Canada's GDP is accounted for by the provision of services. That's pretty much a majority. One example of that, which is near and dear to what I do, is the service activities in the tourism industry. Tourism, of course, is a key economic driver of our economy and accounts for two-thirds of a million jobs, about 2% of GDP. Tourism brings more to Canada's wealth than forestry plus fisheries plus agriculture, those three combined. The visitor economy is a big part of Canada's future economic success.

The vast majority of tourism businesses, in fact 95% of them, are SMEs. They are crucial to the industry and help to define the experiences of domestic and international visitors, and also place Canada on the world tourism map. There were a number of measures in the economic action plan to support Canada's visitor economy: $40 million for the Canadian Tourism Commission to promote domestic tourism and new activities in emerging markets such as India and Brazil; $100 million to marquee festivals and tourist events that draw a lot of tourists into Canada; and $150 million to enable Parks Canada to improve and enhance national parks and historic sites, which are another big draw to our country.

Now we have the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver-Whistler, and right now the Olympic torch is crossing our great country. So we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to show the world what this country has to offer. Of course, we as Canadians are very proud of the great work our thousands of small businesses are doing welcoming the world to Canada during the Olympics and beyond.

Mr. Chairman, let me conclude my remarks by saying there is so much potential for this dynamic, resilient, and capable small business sector. The government will continue to work hard to support the SME sector across Canada as they innovate, create jobs, and generate wealth in our communities.

I'll now turn the floor back to you.

Thank you very much. Merci.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Anthony Rota

Thank you, Madam Minister. We'll continue with questions. The first round will be seven minutes each.

Mr. Bains.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank you, Minister, and I appreciate your remarks very much, especially on tourism, because the tourism sector, with such a high percentage of SMEs in it, is very much connected to, I believe, a study the committee has undertaken.

I want to focus on a couple of areas in my line of questioning. The first has to do with lessons learned. One example comes to mind, and I think it's very timely because of the Prime Minister's trip to China. In 2005 the Liberal government had an agreement in principle for the ADS, the approved destination status, and since then we've fallen behind over 130 countries. I hope and I'm optimistic that the Prime Minister will have some positive announcement to that effect for the ADS in China. I don't know that, but I'm being optimistic.

I want to know from you, Minister, why it has taken so long, and what are some of the lessons learned from that experience?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Thank you, colleague.

Mr. Chairman, we are very happy with the direction of our relationship with China. It has really begun to flourish. We've had a number of high-level meetings between our two countries over the last several months and years. We are working on a number of issues. As you know, just recently we were able to announce that China has agreed to reopen the Chinese market to Canadian pork, which is good news for a sector of our economy. We're making progress on a number of other issues.

As my colleague mentioned, we have of course been working for a number of years on getting an ADS agreement. But even without ADS, just last year visits to Canada by Chinese citizens were up over 5%. In fact there are visits to our country from China equal to a full jumbo jet every day. So there's a lot of travel between our countries, and we look forward to that increasing. Our government has just opened two new trade offices in China, and by the end of the year there will be four more

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

I appreciate that. Those are all positive developments, but there is widespread concern about ADS every time I meet with stakeholders, small businesses, or the tourism sector. They are really hopeful that there will be some positive development on it, so I hope it works out. Whatever mistakes were made in not implementing, I hope we learned some lessons from them.

The second question for you, Minister, concerns the decision to impose the Mexican visa requirements. Was there any consultation with small and medium-sized businesses and with the tourism sector? This decision was made all of a sudden, it was done abruptly, and many of the people I've talked to in these sectors and the stakeholders indicated that there was no heads-up, no consultation. They had made a lot of investments. For example, CTC made a substantial investment, as a targeted market, and all of a sudden they have to change strategy. This has had a major impact on the business.

So first of all, were you consulted on the process? Was there any economic or impact analysis done to indicate what these visa requirements would do to SMEs in the tourism sector?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Chairman, my colleague is absolutely right. We have a very valuable relationship with Mexico that includes visits between our two countries. Especially at this time of year, many Canadians are looking for warm beaches in Mexico.

As members will appreciate, a decision on a change of visa has to be done, shall we say, pretty quickly; there can't be a lot of publicity around it. We did, however, have numerous and close discussions with CIC about tourism issues around the imposition of a visa requirement. We found them very responsive and very helpful, and we'll continue to work with them and with our provincial counterparts, who also raised issues that we're dealing with.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Thank you very much, Minister.

The next question I have concerns the tourism sector specifically. You mention it in your remarks. There's been an announcement of a new federal tourism strategy. Can you indicate how long it will take to materialize and when that strategy will be articulated to the public and to the industry?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Thank you for that. That's the biggest file on my desk, the federal tourism strategy. We have been making progress on it and reporting the progress. I was just in Nova Scotia on Monday at the touring conference and gave them an update on the strategy. I'm pleased to say that at the council of tourism ministers in September in Toronto, the federal, provincial, and territorial ministers were in agreement about moving in this direction. We have an interdepartmental working group or a council of ADMs working on this. They have four working groups working on aspects of the strategy. We're also holding various consultations.

So we're very heavily and busily engaged in this. We will continue to report to the industry on progress.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Thank you.

You mentioned in your remarks a whole list of initiatives that you're responsible for. Are there any particular programs that you're directly responsible for? Those are tools and initiatives, but is there any particular area or program that you're directly responsible for under Industry Canada in your capacity as minister?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

The way it works is that the Minister of Industry is the responsible minister. He has, as you know, two ministers of state who assist him on various files at his request. We're happy to do that. My focus, of course, is especially on small business and tourism matters.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Here is my last question. The Toronto Pride brought in about $136 million last year. Recently Toronto was successful in winning the bid for the World Pride in 2014, which is estimated to have an even larger economic impact on that city and the surrounding region. The event will require an additional $6 million above its regular pride budget. The Ontario government has committed to support this event. Do you have any indication of where the federal government stands, in terms of supporting this event, and on whether they will continue to support this event and the Toronto Pride?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

You're probably aware, Mr. Chair and colleagues, that the next request for applications under the marquee tourism events program just went out from the Minister of Industry this week. We don't know what the applications will be at this point, but time will tell.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Anthony Rota

Very good. Thank you very much.

Mr. Vincent has the floor.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We were talking earlier about Canada trying to increase its exports to China. I would like to reverse the proposition and talk about how SMEs are affected by dumping from China.

There is in my riding a company making bicycles. Its problem is that China exports its bicycles at prices much lower than those in Canada because of lower manufacturing costs. The European Union and the United States have already passed legislation to levy a surtax to protect their SMEs. This allows them to survive despite Chinese exports.

What do you think the government should do to fight the effects of dumping in Canada?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Chairman, colleagues, as you know, this is a long-standing issue for ridings such as yours. I remember dealing with it extensively when I was parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Finance—it's actually a Finance issue.

This issue continues to bubble up, but essentially the Department of Finance has not taken the direction you have mentioned but has actually kept a level playing field for all of those who wish to offer consumers a product, as you mention. I'm sure you'll keep talking about it to the Minister of Finance.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

In theory, consumers should pay the lowest price possible, and I understand that, but the fact that manufacturers are in trouble and that people are losing their jobs because of this dumping creates another synergy. This is why it might be preferable to harmonize our legislation with that of other parts of the world. That will allow Canada to protect its SMEs and their jobs.

Is the government looking at this matter closely or has it moved on to something else?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

This, of course, is not within the purview of the work I've been doing, but I think our government has been very clear that we do not believe protectionism would be at all helpful in the global economic downturn. In fact, we've been in the forefront of urging all countries not to put protectionist measures in place. History has shown that protectionism has been negative to economic recovery. That's the principle we've been operating under, but we're always very open to hearing concerns such as yours and your riding's and will continue to engage with you on issues such as this.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

You know that there is a difference between protectionism and fairness. We might all speak against protectionism but, to my mind, fairness is more important. If a country controls the value of its yuan and provides subsidies to its companies or subcontractors while claiming it does not, that raises a fairness issue. That being so, I believe our government should act to ensure the survival of our SMEs. As far as I am concerned, this is not a matter of protectionism but of fair trade. That country does not value as much as others the principle of fairness.

Does the government believe that something should be done about this?

4 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

As I say, I urge and encourage you to continue your dialogue with the Minister of Finance on that issue. I certainly hear your concerns.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

On another issue, I would like to know if the CANtex program is going to be renewed. It is supposed to expire in March 2010. It is widely used by our textile companies, as indicated by the fact that they have used all the funds available.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Again, colleagues, I am a little unsure of the details of these programs, because they are programs that are administered and decided on by the Minister of Finance. So you'll need to invite him or a representative here if you want to pursue some of those particular issues.

Coleen can give you some perspective on it. She is here and able to do that.

4 p.m.

Coleen Volk Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Industry Sector, Department of Industry

Thank you, Minister.

The textiles program that you mentioned is under the authority of the Minister of Industry, Minister Clement. I am not aware of a government decision to extend it at this time. It is scheduled to terminate at the end of March.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

The minister represents small companies and I suppose that, as the representative of small companies, she would talk to her colleagues to know if this program will be renewed. I suppose that some companies have talked to her about it and, since she is the minister for small business, I suppose she talks to her colleagues to know if the program will continue or not.

I understand that the minister may not be aware of the CANtex program, even though she has jurisdiction for small companies. I would have liked to have an answer to my question. We are receiving many letters and e-mails from people who believe that CANtex should be renewed. I must conclude that the minister is not aware of the representations from small companies.

I will address another witness. This is still related to SMEs, to companies having 100 employees or less.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Anthony Rota

Briefly, Mr. Vincent, since you only have 15 seconds left.