Industry Committee on June 3rd, 2010

[Alan Johnston]

Well, I'm concerned. I wouldn't use the term “outrageous”. I believe that the majority of the pumps that were out of tolerance were out of tolerance by slightly over one tolerance. My concern is simply that gas is a very expensive commodity. It's a commodity used by all Canadians, and I think the technology available today does allow for these gas pumps to remain within tolerance if they're maintained and inspected on a regular basis.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

And the gas station owner who's going to have to $50 to $200 more per pump per two years is going to, in your opinion, probably pass that on to the consumer?

[Alan Johnston]

I don't have an opinion on that. That's beyond my mandate. Mine is simply related to the accuracy of the devices.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Well, that's my opinion.

I just wanted to put it out there to you.

[Alan Johnston]

I would just point out, though, that for truck refuellers that refill large transport trucks and things like that, it's around 80%. If you're looking at retail, it's around 94%. And if you look at the other trade sectors that are involved, we have compliance rates of 70% or 60%.

Again, I want to stress that this proposed bill is much bigger than gas pumps.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

This is a detail I wasn't aware of. For diesel fuel for trucks, it's 80% within compliance. And how does the 20% break down, in terms of giving too much and too little?

[Gilles Vinet, Vice-President, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry]

With regard to the truck refuellers, the bias is the same if not stronger. For example, in 2008, when we were looking for one pump that would be in favour, there would be three pumps against the truckers.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

So it's a 25% to 75% kind of ratio.

[Gilles Vinet]

That's for truck refuellers.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Garneau, for those questions.

Mr. Cardin, you have the floor.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Madam, Gentlemen. Welcome to the committee.

This bill is called “The Fairness at the Pumps Bill“. I am not going to talk about marketing, but with regard to the purpose of the bill, especially following the Canwest article, the emphasis has really been put on that. However, one must not forget that this bill applies to all weights and measures, as well as to electricity and natural gas.

With regard to electricity, I imagine that you have, among other things, done studies regarding electric meters. Are you planning on increasing the frequency of the inspection of these meters? Have you observed serious deviations between readings?

In the end, electric meters are also the responsibility of the “federal“ government. What is the situation? How is this going to work? Do you have a frequency in mind? What kind of a loss might this represent for the consumer? If there is a loss, has it been assessed?

[Gilles Vinet]

Yes. I will take that question.

With regard to electric meters, these fall under the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act. Under this act, periodic inspections are already required in the case of electricity and gas meters, which is not provided for under the Weights and Measures Act. Bill C-14 introduces mandatory inspection periods.

Therefore, in the case of electricity and gas meters, this work is already being done. Electricity and gas meters are regularly inspected. The compliance rates are in this area very high, precisely because these meters are checked regularly.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Therefore, under your project, and specifically with regard to the regulations, are you planning on maintaining the same inspection regularity?

[Gilles Vinet]

Yes. For electricity and gas meters, there is no change with regard to the inspection periods, except that Bill C-14 aims to increase the fines for faulty meters.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

When you talk about fines, this applies...

[Gilles Vinet]

It applies to everything.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

... to all devices.

[Gilles Vinet]

To all devices, in both acts. However, the introduction of mandatory periodic inspections only applies weight and measuring devices, because electricity and gas meters are already covered.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

In that case, the term “weights and measures“ covers all devices used to measure. For example, in the food sector, there are scales pretty much everywhere; the butcher has his scales, each cashier has a scale. There is a lot of money involved here, because these deviations can really add up. I believe that people spend more money on average on groceries than on gasoline. So how do things look as far as that sector is concerned?

[Gilles Vinet]

With regard to inspections, it is rather the same situation: our ability to inspect devices in the retail food sector is limited. The compliance rates are quite high with regard to the devices, but many of them in the retail food sector are not in compliance.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

In the food sector, what is the inspection frequency? Is it every two years?

[Gilles Vinet]

It is every five years.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Very well.

[Gilles Vinet]

It must be stated that the devices used in the retail sector are in a rather protected environment; there is no rain, no temperature variations, etc. These devices therefore maintain their calibration over a longer period of time, contrary to gas pumps or to devices that are outdoors and subjected to all kinds of weather conditions.