Industry Committee on Aug. 16th, 2010

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I just want to be clear; when Mr. Garneau's speaking and he's using the word “we”, he is speaking for all three parties over there, right? Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I assume he's speaking for himself--

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

The Liberal Party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

--and his colleagues.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay. I just wanted clarification.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We have a motion in front of the committee to have a meeting this Friday, August 20, on the issue of the census. Mr. Garneau has assured the committee that he's confident that witnesses will appear.

Mr. Wallace now has the floor.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I scheduled five days of vacation with my family, and today's the first day. So I want to thank you for being my family today.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I will not be here on Friday. I picked five days well in advance, and I cannot be here on Friday.

Second, whether you've talked to people or not, we have the right also to contact people, on this side, to come and be witnesses. If you're trying to be fair...and I'm assuming you are. Let's just assume you are. To be fair, then, at five o'clock, when this meeting ends, for us to put the list together and get it to the clerk, which will be sometime tomorrow, likely, and by the time.... So that's Tuesday; and for Friday, in the middle of the summer, I'm not sure what the response rate will be.

In the spirit of compromise, I have no issue having another meeting on this. I was unable to make the last meeting due to commitments in my riding, but I would like to be at the next one, if possible. To be realistic, if the week after the Labour Day weekend does not work, why don't we have it the week before the Labour Day weekend? September 1, I think, is the Wednesday, so whatever the 29th is, that gives us a week and a half, a couple of weeks, to get our witnesses and have the staff here.

I know he didn't mention it, but my understanding is that the chair will not be available for a couple of weeks, so we are...we get past that. Otherwise, you guys are chairing the meeting. I'm not sure you want that.

So in the spirit of compromise, my view is that I can't personally support Friday, because I can't be here. I made a commitment to my wife and my children, and I'm visiting my parents. I haven't seen them in seven, eight months, so I'm going; I'm not coming here. I think another reasonable option would be to have it in a few weeks. We all get our witnesses. We all come here and argue about the long form, or the national survey, however you want to phrase it, and we deal with it. I think that's more reasonable, being that it is the middle of August and most are either tuned out or off on vacation. I can tell you by the volume of cars in the streets in Burlington at rush hour in the morning that a lot of people are away.

That is my suggestion, Mr. Chair. I can't support the date. I'm asking the opposition to be considerate of the date in the middle of summer and give us a chance to get some witnesses here.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

We have Mr. McTeague, and then....

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

No, that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

Then we have Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'd like, if we could get some indication.... I assume that for both the Bloc and the NDP their witnesses have also been contacted and told about this Thursday date. I find that kind of interesting; what a coincidence that all of the witnesses for all three parties would have been called and informed of the same dates and have no problem making it in three days.

On our side, we haven't been so presumptuous. I'm assuming that Mr. Garneau has not contacted those who might be opposed to his party's position and talked to them about the dates.

Again, it reinforces the notion that there's simply a political exercise going on here. In an effort to alleviate those concerns that we have on this side, hopefully we can find some compromise.

As you know, we believe that we do not need this meeting. We already had hearings on this. In fact, you guys already passed a motion after the last meeting, as a conclusion to the meeting.

It seems to me that in the spirit of compromise we might look at a solution. My colleague Mr. Wallace has suggested the week before Labour Day. I'm looking at my schedule, and September 2 makes some sense for me. I'd prefer, personally...and this is very short notice. I've not had any heads-up from the other side that there was a plan to try to push a meeting this quickly, for Thursday or Friday. I have a very, very significant fundraising breakfast for the Autism Society in Edmonton on Saturday that I'm involved in planning. I'd really prefer not to have a meeting on Thursday or Friday this week.

Hopefully we can find a spirit of compromise and come up with a date that actually works for everybody and that gives us a shot at getting witnesses from both sides--if what we're looking for is a fair hearing on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

We'll go to Mr. McTeague.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I'm fine, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

We're now going to go to Mr. Garneau.

No? Okay.

Monsieur Galipeau, et puis monsieur Masse.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I see that we have two local MPs at this table. We usually ask them to participate in committee meetings like this during the summer because the MPs who come from far away have a hard time getting to Ottawa.

I will not be able to be here on Friday. My mother-in-law died a few days ago and my wife's sister passed away last night. I will be attending the double funeral on Friday. I will not be here. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

My condolences, Mr. Galipeau, on your loss.

We obviously have some difficulty here in coming to a consensus on this. As I mentioned before, we have a motion in front of us. Just to focus the committee's attention--before I go to Mr. Masse--the motion is that the committee meet on Friday, August 20, 2010, to hear additional witnesses regarding the long-form census.

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My condolences as well, Mr. Galipeau.

I, like many members, cancelled family vacation and changed it to be here today. One thing that's difficult in this case is that I don't believe it's the committee members here that I have a particular problem with; it's that the minister and the government continue to move down a road, based upon this issue, that I think is against the interest of Canadians. The longer we hold up having the witnesses who want to come forward, the greater damage we can do to the loss of the census.

Now, whether we agree or disagree, that's a different story, but I think that story has to be told. The longer we delay, the continued government operations continues to erode the possibility of some type of compromise or solution.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Brown.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think that unless there are politics at play here, three days' or two days' notice for a meeting is quite unreasonable, especially at this time of year. I personally have no problem being here. Although I do have events in the riding already scheduled for Thursday and Friday, as I do most days through the summer, I would likely be able to be here. However, I don't think it's fair time for witnesses on all sides of the issue to be properly contacted and be available to come.

A couple of weeks is probably not going to make a significant difference in the outcome of this issue. We know that many members of the committee would be available a week from this coming Monday, during the week of August 30, I believe, or also the week after Labour Day, starting on September 6 or 7.

It's not an unreasonable period of time to schedule meetings at this time of year. I think with some compromise here, we can have the hearings we all want to have, and have them held in a fashion that properly represents both sides of this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

Before I go to Monsieur Bouchard, as chair I want to try to get some agreement here. I remind both sides of the following. This particular meeting has been called under Standing Order 106(4), and that standing order was established in order to call for ad hoc special meetings during the summer recess. In order for those meetings to take place, there has to be some sort of consensus on the part of all members of the committee to have that meeting.

Now, I hear a consensus about having a meeting. That's the good news. What I'm not hearing a consensus about is the date. So we need to come to some sort of agreement on the date, because both sides have a veto over the date.

Obviously the opposition has the majority of votes on this committee, so whatever motion is put, the opposition in concert can defeat or adopt a motion, if it so decides. But the government also has a veto, because the rules of the committee are clear: members have the right to debate, and there is no limit on debate. This meeting will adjourn at five o'clock. If government members so wish, they can continue this debate till adjournment.

We have quite a bit of time left. We have 40 minutes left. I hope that in the next 40 minutes we can arrive at a mutually agreeable date. I do hear consensus on the need for a second day of hearings.

We're going to Monsieur Bouchard, puis monsieur Lake, et puis monsieur Garneau.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

If I understood what Mr. Lake said correctly, he would rather not have the meeting on August 20 because, in his opinion, we would not have enough witnesses and the witnesses would not have enough time to prepare. Starting today, the witnesses would have four days to prepare. In my opinion, the best date would be next Friday, August 20.

Mr. Galipeau, may I offer my condolences. I see you are going through a hard time. But we could probably find another MP to make up the Conservative Party complement.

To date, we have three witnesses on our list. Although we have not contacted them yet, I am sure that a four-day notice would be reasonable for these witnesses. The Liberal Party mentioned 23 witnesses. I don't think we can hear 23 witnesses, but we can certainly find a wide selection of witnesses among the 23, and we will have enough for a very full day.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. I think Mr. Lake sees two problems with holding the meeting on Friday. First, he will not be able to attend because he is participating in events in Edmonton on Friday and Saturday. Second, the government will not have enough time to ask witnesses who support its decision to appear before our committee. I believe these are the two problems raised by Mr. Lake, but thank you for your comments.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Can I take myself off the list? I'll listen to what Marc has to say first , and then I'll come back on.