Evidence of meeting #38 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
In any event, now we understand the system better.
So Measurement Canada would be responsible for going to Hydro-Québec and verifying all aspects of the training and so on.
11:50 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
But also for making sure that they are doing the same thing at Hydro-Québec as at TransAlta, in Alberta, and Hydro Ottawa here in Ottawa. There might be differences in the measurement equipment used to certify meters. There might be differences that are reasonable.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
But at present, Hydro-Québec, like the other companies in the other provinces, has a responsibility to ensure the result.
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
Yes, exactly, performance based.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
We oversee Hydro-Québec through our audits, our product audits, and so on.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
I'm going to go next to the original mover of the amendment, but we've had a subamendment. I just want to ask Mr. Cotton, before we go to Mr. McTeague, the subamendment was at the end of the original amendment and said “for greater certainty in each particular sector”. Does this change the nature of the original amendment? I think members around the table--
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
If we're speaking about the ENG amendment, I don't think it adds anything of value, because I don't think the ENG amendment adds anything of value at this point. Maybe I should choose my words a little more carefully here, but if we're talking about weights and measures, then let's take a look at it. I'd need to see it in writing, and perhaps I'd need to discuss it. Right now I'm seeing it as a “concept” here, so....
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I appreciate Mr. Rota's friendly amendment here to the clause I am trying to amend. I'm wondering if the wording might be tightened after the word “inspectors”. I'm just leaving this open. It's not a....
So after the word “inspectors”, remove the three words “are conducted uniformly”, and replace them with “in each specific sector subject to inspection, conducted consistently and uniformly”.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Well, Mr. McTeague, I think in all fairness we have the amendment, and now we've--
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I'm leaving that open just for greater clarity. I think Mr. Cotton gets an idea of what we're trying to achieve.
Mr. Chair, I hope that Mr. Cotton did not want to give the impression that Measurement Canada does one thing for one province but not for the others.
On the question from my colleague Mr. Cardin regarding Hydro-Québec, it seemed to me that one thing was being done for Quebec and it wasn't uniform for the rest of Canada. That isn't the impression...
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
Again, if that's the impression I gave, that's not what I meant.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Did I misunderstand?
I want to make absolutely sure.
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
What I meant is that there are different situations for a utility such as Hydro-Québec compared to a utility such as TransAlta in terms of the test equipment they use that would require us to assess what they're doing and determine whether it's suitable. It may not be exactly what Hydro-Québec is doing. It may not be exactly what Hydro One is doing. But it's--
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
Yes, we are doing that, but it's not a matter of making concessions; it's a matter of ensuring that what is being done is appropriate and suitable for that particular--
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Mr. Cotton, I guess the concern I have.... I go back to the time it took, a week and a half, to respond to the 3,000 or so pages you sent me. One thing stood out on the chart I was able to put together on the measurement compliance rate. You may take issue with it, but I'll be glad to give you a copy. It says here that electricity has a compliance rate of 74.19%. We're going after an industry that has 93.11%.
With this alone, unless I am completely mistaken, the information you've given me is erroneous. It seems to me that you definitely need something as far as electricity of the ENG equation is concerned, Mr. Cotton. Do you feel it's acceptable to have an inaccuracy rate of 25.81%, leave that silent, as opposed to going after an industry that might at worst have a 6.5% skew?
11:55 a.m.
Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Program Development Directorate, Measurement Canada, Department of Industry
I guess what I have to say is that I'm not looking at what you're looking at.
Is it proper process to ask to have it tabled so that we can take a look at it?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
For reference, you can take a look at it, but I believe it's only in one official language, so it can't be distributed to the committee.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Mr. Cotton, I think it's acceptable for you to take a look at what Mr. McTeague is speaking to.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Chair, with electricity rates in this province and in many other provinces, one-quarter inaccuracy is a lot of money.
When consumers, Canadians, are knocking on our doors asking us how they're going to make ends meet, it seems to me that we can agree or disagree with the facts you've supplied and how they've been rearranged, but, if anything, the amendment we have put forward here is in fact appropriate, is in fact necessary. If it's necessary to go after industry with a 7% inaccuracy rate, we sure as heck should be going after an industry with a 25% inaccuracy rate.
Thank you, Chair.