Industry Committee on Oct. 19th, 2010

[Carl Cotton]

Yes, it would be, because the mechanism for delegating the verification and reverification authorities under the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act requires the implementation of a quality management system, so it will encompass how they manage their meter shop verifications, their training procedures, and their nonconformance corrective action process.

More importantly, and to your point, Measurement Canada has to approve and authorize for use the procedures that the accredited organizations under the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act are using, so in terms of uniformity, you have a central focal point where Measurement Canada is reviewing and approving and authorizing the procedures that an organization accredited under the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act would be utilizing.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you.

I have a list of speakers started.

Mr. Wallace--

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Sorry, I was still going. I just asked a quick question of Dan.

As I'm looking at both of these changes, we're talking about several categories of things that would be measured, yet the wording and the changes talk about “all inspectors and all persons designated as inspectors” being trained and tested in a uniform manner. As I read that, it strikes me that given that we're talking about several different types of things that may be measured, it seems that this blanket approach to all of them doesn't really address the fact that there may be differences in the ways that certain items are measured.

That seems to me to be the crux of the issue; it doesn't give the flexibility to--

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mike, I think you've got the earlier version. There's been an updated version since then. I'm sorry. It's not the testing of the testers. You may have the earlier version of the amendments.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Chair, could you give us a minute? You may want to get the one that's the latest.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes. Someone came to bring me a different one. I assumed it was the same. I can take a peek at that to make sure I'm dealing with the same thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Hang on for a second. Could you read the one you're referencing right now, Mr. McTeague, so all of us know that we have accurate documentation in front of us?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

He just took my copy, so hang on a moment here, Chair.

My amendment is that clause 5 of Bill C-14 be amended after line 14 on page 2:

The Minister shall ensure that all inspectors and all persons designated as inspectors are trained in the same manner and that all measurements made by inspectors and by persons designated as inspectors are conducted uniformly.

Chair, could you just ascertain whether Mr. Cotton--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Hang on just a minute. There's a point of order on this. We've ascertained what the correct one is.

Mr. Lake, is that what you were operating from?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Can we take a couple of minutes to get the new version and take a look at it? I got this version from Mr. McTeague, so obviously it's been changed since then. It would be nice to be talking about the same thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

All right, can we come back to this then?

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Yes, absolutely, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's fine.

Monsieur Cardin.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have one small question for our witnesses. At the beginning, I thought I maybe didn't have the French version, but that was because it wasn't working. So I may have lost a little bit.

I would like it if you could clarify the situation. In terms of the Electricity Inspection Act, it is the corporations or the big companies that have inspectors in their organizations to do the verifications. Those inspectors are appointed by the companies...

[Carl Cotton]

Yes.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

...each of the respective companies. Are those choices subject to official approval?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

If it's possible, can we call a five-minute recess right now just to take a look? We were given one set of documents previous to the meeting by the member who is moving the amendments. The ones we're looking at right now are different. I think if we can have five minutes just to process this information right now, that would be worth while.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Lake, Monsieur Cardin is simply asking a question. Let him get his question answered, and then we'll suspend for five minutes.

Monsieur Cardin, continue.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

At the same time, to reassure the secretary, I didn't receive anything, nor did my colleague, before getting here. We are going to try to get along somehow else.

The choice of the people appointed by each of the organizations, who are identified as inspectors, is it somehow approved by the Department? Is it verified that the people appointed to that position have the skills to perform it? Is that the procedure?

[Carl Cotton]

That is the procedure for electricity and gas. The accreditation program requires a quality management system that has to be put in place, and that includes the way the inspectors are trained and the work instructions, the work procedures. Measurement Canada does audits of the system every year, and audits of the products. There are "reinspections" every year as well. So there is a way for the Minister to oversee the work done by the accredited inspectors at Hydro-Québec or Gaz Métro, for example.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Do you also approve the appointment of the inspectors by verifying their professional qualifications at the outset, or...?