Thank you for the question.
Essentially, as in my answer to Mr. Rafferty, this industry is a capital-intensive industry. Beyond the cost of the fibre and the energy that goes into making the product, we need to invest heavily into new equipment and new machinery, and that's in the existing product lines of pulp, paper, and lumber.
However, as we transform our industry and move more into the bioeconomy and are looking at more bioenergy and biochemical products, that's going to require new technology and new research and development. That in turn is going to require money for investment. That's where our future lies.
If we're going to continue to employ the 230,000 people that we do employ and maybe even grow the industry beyond that, we're going to need to move into those territories, and that's going to require investment. The investment is, of course, capital, and we need to have access to capital in a competitive way, not with onerous rates.