I feel like I should be playing this little violin, but I'm not going to.
That was a good try, Terry.
Consumers will always be well served and they will always have a wide choice of products. There are lots of issuers, lots of banks out there, competing for their business, regardless if it's VISA or MasterCard. So I'm not concerned about consumers. I'm concerned about the middle guys--no gender intended--small and medium, and even large businesses, because we heard their testimony last year or two years ago, who know this technology is coming, who are not, Terry, with all due respect, at the table to discuss the standards, to discuss whether there should be one machine on the desk or 20 machines on the desk, and who are asking why is this machine not lasting 10 years versus a year, and why isn't this great security, the new PIN pads, the new PIN cards, the chip in PIN cards, decreasing fraud? It's costing more than when retailers were handling cash 10 years ago.
So it's very hard to convince the retail community, and they are very sophisticated, regardless of their size. With all those improvements and technologies, costs are going up. In every other business with increased investment in technology, efficiencies go up and costs go down. That is the biggest concern. It's great, VISA has more money than the Vatican. They have great advertising. They will convince you to pay with your VISA credit card, even if you buy a loaf of bread. That's not to the advantage of the merchant. The consumer is not less served or better served; they're just using a different product. What they don't know is these guys are making a hell of a lot more money by using the credit or mobile or tap-and-go than by using Interac debit. So let's be honest about that.
I think I won that argument.