Well, I guess I'd say a couple of things. First of all, retailers do bear some of the cost, there's no question about that, but a lot of the cost for security and so on is funded by other parts. It's funded by the spread. So the costs are shared all the way around, but I take your point on that.
You talked about the Interac cost versus the cost of cards. Again, numbers are bandied about here. I encourage the committee to go online. There's a real nifty chart on the website of the CFIB, another business representative, that actually charts the costs of card acceptance. It's actually lower than 3%. They've done a very comprehensive...it is lower than that.
But remember: there are different products here. Interac, as was just said, is directly into the account. The money's there and you pull the money out. Credit cards are a credit product: you're extending credit. You're advancing credit to people and the institution is taking a risk. You have to price for that risk. There's a whole bunch of other things that go into that, but to compare the two.... They really are different products and people use them differently.